50 



and jobs if it were to fall victim to the below-cost strategy of this 

 administration? 



Mr. Riley. If I understand your question right, we see going on 

 in Idaho today and through the West tremendous pressure being 

 placed on the private industrial and nonindustrial forest sources 

 that are intermixed because of the — if I can use this popular 

 term — the gridlock that exists in the public forestry program. So as 

 the west coast of Oregon and Washington has been unable to exe- 

 cute their timber sale programs, as the Nez Perce National Forest 

 might sell a fraction of what it had intended to sell this year be- 

 cause of the problems they have, what that has done is placed tre- 

 mendous harvest pressure on the remaining sources, which are the 

 private industrial and nonindustrial sources, as people who own 

 sawmills seek to just maintain continuity with the long-term hope 

 that somehow this problem will be resolved. 



Senator Craig. So that is part of the impact, and that concerns 

 me as relates to maintenance of the general environment. We 

 assume that if we treat the public lands right environmentally, all 

 the environment will be sound. But that creates a reaction in the 

 reverse that causes overlogging on the private lands that is hap- 

 pening in the West right now. To offset losses from the spotted owl 

 and below-cost consideration — we get almost a reverse impact and 

 one that we did not want or intend to have. It occurs as a result of 

 these phenomenally high values for private timber. Is that not hap- 

 pening? 



Mr. Riley. That is happening, and I think you have to think 

 globally when you think of this, too. The truth of the matter is the 

 American public still has an interest in and a desire to consume 

 wood and paper products at rates that have not abated, and have 

 substantially increased and are projected to continue to increase. 

 And somewhere, the wood fiber is going to come from to meet that 

 demand — at least, it has — and if you shift from one source to an- 

 other, it is a question of where that comes from. And maybe it is 

 even offshore, but the more rational way to approach this is to look 

 at the question of how to do forestry right, which we have been 

 trying to do in Idaho now for the past 10 years, rather than always 

 facing this witch hunt of reasons why not to do forestry at all. 



Senator Craig. I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman. 



Senator Daschle. I have just one set of questions relating to the 

 congressional relationship to all of this that I think needs to be ex- 

 plored briefly for purposes of this hearing. 



As everyone knows, Congress sets timber sale targets annually in 

 the appropriations process, and those targets have often been spe- 

 cific for each Forest Service region. As I understand it, these tar- 

 gets have driven the high level of cutting that we have experienced 

 in the national forests during the eighties. There is even evidence 

 that the forest supervisors and district rangers in the Forest Serv- 

 ice have been told that they must "get the cut out" — that is, they 

 must ensure that the cut level established by Congress is offered 

 for sale, regardless of whether that makes economic or environ- 

 mental sense, or they will be moved. 



Also, I have heard that the resistance of some of these profes- 

 sionals to meet unrealistically high and environmentally damaging 

 harvest levels have caused transfers and resignations within the 



