22 



I would argue that the current system, as you know, which is 

 forest-based, has a number of failings and does not provide the re- 

 finement that is necessary on a district basis or a program basis. 

 These are the things we need to evaluate — how costly would it be 

 to evaluate sales; how difficult would it be to gather data to assess, 

 say, a timber sale program as opposed to individual sales? I think 

 these are the kinds of things that the Forest Service has looked at 

 and we hope to look at in much greater detail as we conduct this 

 review of the timber sale program. 



Certainly we don't want to generate an accounting system that 

 in itself becomes a cost, that becomes an additional burden on the 

 program. 



Senator Craig. Senator Baucus in his comments a few moments 

 ago before the committee mentioned three items, one of those being 

 cost of road construction, type of roads, permanent versus tempo- 

 rary roads. And of course, any of us who are familiar with our for- 

 ested lands and concerned about runoff and water quality recognize 

 the phenomenal cost that goes into road construction. The public is 

 frustrated that, after you have built this marvelous road into a wa- 

 tershed for timber sale purposes, it is shut down for wildlife man- 

 agement purposes. 



Probably my greatest interfacing with the public in the timbered 

 areas of Idaho is not over the quality of the water or the tree that 

 was knocked down, but is about the road that was closed and 

 access denied. I believe that the Forest Service ought to change 

 that policy considerably and do a good deal less road building. They 

 should be very up-front in communications with the public as to 

 the type of roads and the purpose for which those roads are being 

 built. 



I started arguing that point with the Forest Service a decade ago, 

 and the roads are still the same. 



Can you make some comment on that, Jim, because I do believe 

 that it is part of the cost that we could scale down substantially. 

 Now, does that mean that you shut down timber sales which might 

 otherwise go forward based on the ability of the road to handle the 

 weight and the traffic? It is a two-edged issue. 



Mr. Lyons. Well, it is a very difficult issue, as you know, Sena- 

 tor, and I don't think I disagree with the way you have character- 

 ized the issue. 



I think the key is to develop a road system that is appropriate to 

 the need. In those instances and those situations where a road will 

 serve multiple purposes or will be used time and again, say, within 

 a sale unit, it is probably appropriate to build a larger road, a 

 heavy-duty road, a road that typically would be built with appro- 

 priated dollars. 



In other instances, it may be more appropriate to build a tempo- 

 rary road and then to put that road to bed. The Forest Service pro- 

 gram, as I have come to understand it from my experience in deal- 

 ing with this issue, has evolved over time. Decades ago, there was 

 less emphasis on building roads with appropriated dollars and 

 more emphasis on the kinds of roads that might be built by timber 

 purchasers and might be characterized as temporary roads or roads 

 suited to, say, a particular timber sale. 



