43 



commercial float operators' permits skyrocket, because instantly, 

 they were limited, so the ones that were established were, of 

 course, in favor of that. 



That is how — to my understanding, and I am not an expert on 

 the commercial end, and I don't pretend to be. I am a private float- 

 er, and I like to recreate, and I am just trying to protect that right, 

 but to my understanding, that is the way the permit system came 

 about. 



Some of the gentlemen who follow are probably much more 

 knowledgeable in that than I am, but that is my understanding of 

 it. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Mr. Sherwin, what has been your experience 

 in terms of powerboating encounters as a floater with regard to the 

 crowding and the safety of the floaters? 



Mr. Sherwin. I haven't had a problem with it at all. When I go 

 into Hells Canyon, I expect to see powerboats; I know I am going 

 to see powerboats; and I don't object to seeing powerboats. 



I have never had a specific problem with anyone because they 

 were up there by powerboat or by any other means. I think in the 

 canyon, like anywhere, you can get along or you can not get along, 

 and it is just up to you. 



I would say my experiences have been equal with floaters and 

 boaters and people who are horsebacking. I have made a lot of new 

 friends in all segments of river use up there. We have camped to- 

 gether; we shared camps many times. Most of my friends I met in 

 Hells Canyon that I have now that are close friends, and some of 

 those are boaters, some are floaters; a couple are horseback pack- 

 ers who go in there. 



I don't think it is a problem. I don't see it. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Mr. Bentz. 



Mr. Bentz. Could I make a brief response to that? 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Yes. 



Mr. Bentz. I would say probably 99 percent of the time there is 

 not a problem, over 99 percent of the time. It is compatible use. 



As a person who is on the river day after day during certain 

 times, I might encounter maybe 130 rafts in a day. Of these, al- 

 most all of them are either friendly or they are indifferent. Once 

 in a great while, we will encounter some hard core people who are 

 anti-powerboat, and you can tell with the commercial raft groups, 

 the commercial powerboat outfitters that run tours in upper Hells 

 Canyon day after day, when they encounter floaters. 



If a float group is on a five-day trip, powerboaters go by those 

 people maybe every day for three to five days and the commercial 

 float outfitters who are friendly to powerboaters, you can tell it in 

 the attitudes of the guides; you can tell it in the attitudes of the 

 clients. 



The commercial float outfitters who are very unfriendly to 

 powerboats, after the second day, you can tell it in the clients. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Interesting. Well, I thank you very much, and 

 I want to thank the panel, Mr. Sherwin, Mr. Bentz, and Mrs. 

 Mitchell. 



As you know, the record does remain open, and any additional 

 information that you would like plus information that Mr. Cooley 



