This concludes my statement, Mr. Chairman. I just want to em- 

 phasize that this is a very complex issue, and we have attempted. 

 Jack and I, to emphasize the fact that it is important to allow local 

 forest supervisors the discretion and the authority to make deci- 

 sions that will reflect needs and conditions in their observation 

 from the ground, and for that reason, I am going to defer many of 

 my questions to the supervisors who are with us today, because 

 they have the on-the-ground experience in dealing with this. 



That concludes my statement, and I think the panel is prepared 

 to answer questions at this point. 



Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I notice the panel is here 

 really not to give statements but to back you up, is that right? 



Mr. Lyons. That is right. 



Mr. Hansen. Chief Thomas, it is always good to have you with 

 us. Do you have anything you want to say about this? 



Mr. Thomas. No, sir, I think that statement covers it for all of 

 us, and we are prepared to answer your questions. 



Mr. Hansen. Do the rest of you gentlemen have anjrthing you 

 would like to say? 



Mr. Richmond. We will concur. 



Mr. Hansen. We have supporting actors. All right, the gentlelady 

 from Idaho, do you want to start the verbal abuse of this panel? 



Mrs. Chenoweth. The only testimony we will hear is from Mr. 

 Lyons, right? 



Mr. Lyons, are you or anyone else on the panel attorneys? 



Mr. Lyons. I am not an attorney. Congress woman. I don't believe 

 any of the other gentlemen are. No. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. I have a question with regards to commercial 

 use of the river. 



Is it not correct that the salmon was listed as an endangered spe- 

 cies under the jurisdiction of the Fish and Wildlife Service and var- 

 ious other agencies? 



It is listed in commerce because it crosses State lines and that 

 is why the National Fish Reserve also manages the Salmon on the 

 Snake River? 



Mr. Lyons. Congress woman, I will state briefly that responsibil- 

 ity for listing decisions relating to the Endangered Species Act do 

 not fall within the jurisdiction of the Forest Service. 



The jurisdiction, as I understand it, is divided between the Fish 

 and Wildlife Service for terrestrial and inland fish species, and the 

 National Marine Fisheries Service for National Species. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. But my question and I may not have made 

 myself clear, was the Salmon listed — the jurisdiction for covering 

 the salmon is within your province, right? 



Mr. Lyons. For listing decisions, that is correct. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. And for management decisions. 



Mr. Lyons. Well, we have some responsibility for management 

 decisions as well. Actually, why don't I let Jack explain this, be- 

 cause he has much expertise in the consultation process. 



Mr. Thomas. Listing decisions, Congress woman, are the preroga- 

 tive of the National Marine Fisheries Service in terms of matters 

 of fish. Recovery plans are prepared in conjunction with the land 

 management agencies. 



