214 



So until such time as they have a chance to review that docu- 

 ment, it is difficult to say exactly what they will have to do. 



Mr. Hansen. Thank you. 



When you have further light on it, would you let us know? 



Let me ask you an unrelated one before the red light goes on. 

 When we say land, wilderness and forest — as you know, designated 

 in Utah in 1984 — I am beginning to wonder. I heard a man on the 

 radio yesterday state that he felt that many of the forest fires that 

 are seen all over the West are a result of forests that grow up and 

 old growth and things such as that. Is there any validity in that 

 argument? 



Mr. Unger. As I think as Mr. Herger pointed out earlier, there 

 are factors relating to the way we have managed the forest that are 

 based on the information we have these days, and many of the 

 kinds of facts that come out in these assessments increased some 

 of the hazards of dangerous fire. 



The policy that we have followed for a great many years of sup- 

 pressing fires to the maximum extent has been one of the elements 

 leading to that — of the elements of management leading to that sit- 

 uation, and we, as you well know, are much more concerned today 

 about finding ways to find the appropriate use of fire and eco- 

 system and in removing smaller material and fuel loads through 

 thinning salvage and other means to reduce those risks. 



Mr. Hansen. It makes you wonder. Having been part of every 

 wilderness bill that has gone on around here for 15 years, I am just 

 curious, what do we do in those areas? We don't do any cutting at 

 all. We don't seem, contrary to — even the law states you can't put 

 slaughter animals on this land. We have noticed this in the studies 

 we have done that are out of the area. All of those tools are pretty 

 well gone. Just let them go, and then the thing bums. I guess the 

 same environmental concern is, just let it bum. I had trouble un- 

 derstanding him. 



Mr. Unger. We do have the opportunity in the wilderness areas 

 to use prescribed fire as a tool to try to create a more natural con- 

 dition and a less hazardous condition. 



Mr. Hansen. I know you do. We haven't retorted the idea. We 

 haven't at all figured out how to do it. That is my own opinion. 



The gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Duncan. 



Mr. Duncan. Mr. Unger, the GAO report of not long ago that the 

 Forest Service is spending approximately $250 million a year in 

 conducting environmental analyses, is that accurate, or is it more 

 than that or less than that? 



Mr. Unger. I would have to look at the report and look at the 

 figures to be sure, Congressman. 



Mr. Duncan. In regard to the Southern Appalachian Assess- 

 ment, do you think that assessment will satisfy the Fire Service, 

 or do you think they will require this analysis every time they get 

 involved in any project? 



Mr. Unger. The idea of the assessment is to provide additional — 

 the best possible information for making our decisions either in for- 

 est plan amendments or in individual projects through the NEPA 

 process. It should reduce the need for gathering as much informa- 

 tion at that time as we can. 



Forest may want to respond to that. 



