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work with local country officials. I will give you some names that 

 I would like you to take down: Dr. Wayne Burkhart, Dr. Chad Gib- 

 son, Neal Ramby, Dr. Ken Sanders, and Chuck Jones. These people 

 have been leaders in management in southern Idaho, and the last 

 time I had spoken with them, none of them had been contacted. 

 They are fabulous experts in the field. 



For the record, I would like to say that because of the require- 

 ments under that portion of FLPMA, I would like very much if you 

 would make an effort to contact them. I had heard figures bounced 

 around within the Ecological Assessment Team in which they had 

 said that as much as 60 percent of the ecosystems in the Columbia 

 Basin Project are in chronically bad shape. 



Can you describe the parameters of what you mean by "in chron- 

 ically bad shape" and what is the threshold of chronically bad 

 shape? And knowing that the plan will deal with human activity, 

 can you answer my question with regard to the fact that we have 

 just come out of a 9-year drought 2 years ago? 



Mr. Blackwood. We may have to follow up with additional infor- 

 mation, so my response will be very brief here. We can do that if 

 that is decided. 



When we look at ecosystems, we look at both the ecological as- 

 pects of the ecosystems as well as the social and economic. From 

 the ecological aspects, we have found that there are some systems 

 that are a little out of balance, especially leading to some of the for- 

 est health problems we have, spread of exotic weeds, those kinds 

 of things. Also, we have found declines in fish stocks, not only 

 salmon but other fish. Those things contribute to some of the prob- 

 lems that we found from the ecological standpoint. 



From the social and the economic side, some of the problems that 

 you are probably well aware of are some of the ups and downs, our 

 ability to supply various goods and services from the Federal lands, 

 the uncertainty that gives to communities. So we find that there 

 are certain numbers of communities as part of the ecosystem. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. On another issue, one of my main concerns 

 since I have been in Congress is making sure States maintain their 

 sovereign right to manage or control their water. I am worried 

 about this. I want you to know that. 



Mr. Chairman, I see that my time is almost up, but I was fas- 

 cinated again with Congressman Herger's research and his ref- 

 erence to this. As you know, the SNEP law or bill was not debated 

 even in this committee. It was read into the record by Congress- 

 man Miller and Congressman Vento, into this record. 



It was not a law that was passed even out of committee or by 

 the entire Congress, and yet this hearing about an ecosystem 

 project emerged out of this and massive amounts of money have 

 been allocated for the expenditure of something that was read into 

 the record by the Ranking Minority Member and Mr. Vento. 



I have to say that in the day and age when we are talking about 

 downsizing the size of Federal Government, to see these plans 

 growing outside of the forest boundaries and districts set up under 

 FLPMA, we are seeing government expand instead of contract. 



My people also in Idaho are nervous, confused and frightened 

 with this and they see that it will not only not resolve problems. 



