230 



for a number of purposes, primarily for generation of power. But 

 that is a problem I think all land managers face, what to do with 

 these small trees. 



Mr. Herger. You mentioned that you are finding 50 percent 

 higher growth than then in some of the federally managed forests. 

 Also, you state that you are finding spotted owls in the same pro- 

 portion that you do in others. Can this observation be documented? 

 Has it been documented? 



Mr. Snyder. We have had ongoing studies that began in the late 

 1980's that have continued through this year. The work with the 

 spotted owls is continually ongoing. They are a very territorial bird 

 and return to the same nesting areas generally year after year, so 

 we have a fairly extensive record to document the presence of the 

 owls. 



If you wanted to come out, we could show you a few of them. You 

 could pick the spot on the map, if you wish. The growth rates, typi- 

 cally what we are experiencing in the way of growth is 3.5 to 4 per- 

 cent. If you look at comparable growth percentage figures on Na- 

 tional Forests within the same area, they are 1.5 to 2 percent. 



Mr. Herger. Mr. Chairman, just for the record, I find it incred- 

 ible that, considering with the testimony we have just heard, we 

 are actually finding the same amount of owls on these managed 

 areas as we do on Forest Service land and that the growth rate is 

 greater than it is. I have flown over some of these private areas, 

 and I am specifically thinking about the area of Mount Shasta, a 

 property managed by Sierra-Pacific, where you can see as straight 

 as an arrow the section line where Federal forests begin and pri- 

 vate property begin. There one can see healthy green forests where 

 they have been managed by private but dead and dying, as much 

 as 60 percent dead and dying in some area, in the Forest Service 

 Lands. Yet we, have the Forest Service who picks and chooses what 

 parts of this legislation it is going to follow. 



We have had science which has been so flawed to allow this to 

 take place, and the repercussions of this, as Mr. Snyder mentioned, 

 are closing mills. This month, the 30th mill in the last several 

 years in my Second Congressional District that is closing. Thou- 

 sands of families, especially children are affected by the unfounded 

 policy that we have, we can also see it is literally leading to the 

 burning down of our forests, the losing of the habitat rather than 

 the other. Yet we cannot get information out to be able to comment 

 on it. I find this abhorrent. I believe this situation must change im- 

 mediately and that hopefully the findings of this hearing today will 

 help ensure such a change. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Doolittle. Thank you. 



I join in your comments. It has been very frustrating to see this 

 all happen. After all, it was admitted that this was a surrogate spe- 

 cies, right, the spotted owl, the northern owl, they are talking 

 about, and then we invented the CALOWL. 



I expect there is any number of other things out there, once this 

 surrogate species has run its course, there are others. That is why 

 we are trying to reform the Endangered Species Act. 



I think this problem with CASPO— is it FLPMA, Mrs. 

 Chenoweth? It is a different act. 



