98 



Here we are saying we know better under all circumstances. And 

 from the standpoint of management, I guess I would say that that 

 was unwise. I hope to develop a little of that right now. 



Dr. Brooks, prior to becoming Deputy Director of the Alaska 

 Region of the National Marine Fisheries, were you not the Com- 

 missioner of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game? 



Dr. Brooks. Yes, sir. 



Senator Wallop. And in that capacity, did you or did Alaska 

 Fish and Game advocate 100-foot buffer strips on Class I, Class II? 



Dr. Brooks. We advocated buffer strips without a specific meas- 

 ure being recommended or designated. 



Senator Wallop. But in fact, at the time were you not advocat- 

 ing the necessity of keeping all woody debris, large and small, out 

 of such streams and hand-cleaning? 



Dr. Brooks. No, sir, and I just do not know where that allegation 

 originated. I have heard it many times. It certainly was not and 

 has never been to my knowledge a position of the Department of 

 Fish and Game. 



Senator Wallop. You did not do any hand-cleaning of streams 

 for large woody debris? 



Dr. Brooks. No, sir. 



Senator Wallop. Ever? 



Dr. Brooks. No, sir, not to my knowledge, except one or two 

 cases where the operator was using the stream as a skidway for 

 logs and had pretty well boogered things up; we did require him to 

 straighten it up. 



Senator Wallop. Would you say that the attention of the Forest 

 Service to riparian management has improved or gotten worse? 



Dr. Brooks. I think it has improved and, as I say, I certainly 

 compliment the present leadership of the Forest Service in their at- 

 titude toward recognizing the multiple resource values in the 

 forest. I think it is very much improved, yes, sir. But I also point 

 out that people change, circumstances change. And where you 

 leave it to a subjective decision of an individual, you cannot always 

 be certain — in fact, given enough time you can be very certain that 

 the right decisions are not going to always be made. 



Senator Wallop. In fact, is this not a subjective decision, and is 

 this not going to be rigid and beyond reach? Under all sets of cir- 

 cumstances, you are going to sit here and say that there is no time 

 in which the judgment of on the ground land managers can be 

 brought into play. 



Dr. Brooks. They need to be brought into play continuously, but 

 the 100-foot leave strip is the minimum. We have never found a lo- 

 cation where we could safely say you can intrude on the 100-foot 

 without any risk of downstream damage. Nor have we ever found a 

 place where we have had too much woody debris. We have had too 

 much for canoeing, quite true, but we have never found where the 

 relationship between more woody debris and more salmon produc- 

 tion broke down. 



Senator Wallop. I have not really looked at that, either. 



I think on page 1 and 2 of your testimony you cite that there is 

 extensive research documenting the need for the 100-foot buffer 

 strip policy. That is what your statement says, is that correct? 



