42 



all got along fine together before man started interfering with the 

 stocks. 



If you look at the 1960's and '70's, striped bass went all the way 

 up at the same time bluefish were going up. It is in the 70's when 

 they collapsed, when you were basically throwing all nets across 

 the Chesapeake Bay. 



Mr. Saxton. Let's explore another aspect which has been dis- 

 cussed several times and that is that perhaps the fish stocks have 

 moved offshore. I went tuna fishing, I think it was last summer 

 and unfortunately a strong west wind came up and we got about 

 20 miles out. We decided that we didn't want to go where the tuna 

 fish were because it would take too long to get back and some of 

 us were already feeling the effects of the heavy seas. 



So we stopped and began to catch bluefish and you put your line 

 in the water and you would have a bluefish on it. We have also 

 heard anecdotes today of bluefish on wrecks and unusually large 

 numbers of shark fishermen that have a difficult time fishing for 

 shark apparently because there are so many bluefish around that 

 it. This makes it, for some reason, difficult to catch shark. We have 

 heard of bluefish being found offshore in areas where they are not 

 historically found. 



I guess a case can be made that the stock offshore and when we 

 begin to try to scientifically measure it, it seems to me that it is 

 a whole different thing trying to scientifically measure bluefish 

 stock as opposed to stripers when you can go down to the Chesa- 

 peake in the Choptank River and do a population count. You know 

 what the new stock looks like and you know what the numbers are 

 but you can't measure bluefish stock for obvious reasons. 



They spawn offshore and have their young so it is very difficult 

 to measure the stock. I guess on the one hand we have scientif- 

 ically less accurate information and on the other hand there is at 

 least a whole bunch of anecdotal evidence that there is a signifi- 

 cant stock offshore, whether it is large or small, and let's talk 

 about this for a minute. Ray. 



Mr. BoGAN. A comment with regard to that offshore fishery is 

 that someone stated before that these are all large fish. That is not 

 the case. We have seen for the last several years that there is a 

 fairly good spread of year classes. Indeed, we have had times fish- 

 ing out there where you have two and three year old fish which is 

 not the norm. 



Something is happening. I don't know why those fish are out 

 there. I can't answer that and I certainly don't suggest that we 

 have the answer for that but I suggest that the answer is multi- 

 dimensional and that is why we have to look at all these factors 

 during the amendment process. 



There are some very, very significant numbers out there to the 

 point where some commercial fishermen who have looked for other 

 fish and I can reference certain people in Cape May, for example, 

 who have said that these things are really turning into a nuisance. 



What you have just mentioned with regard to stopping 20 miles 

 offshore, our fleets this year, and this is an important point that 

 I didn't raise before, 1995 was an extraordinary year in the New 

 York Bight for bluefish. The Barnegators and I mentioned Karter's 

 dad's boat for example and I mention our boats and I can mention 



