15 



reational and commercial fishermen be included because that may 

 very well tip the decision one way or another concerning where the 

 biomass is headed. 



Mr. Pallone. Mr. Chairman, could I just ask, this concept of bio- 

 mass which is a scientific one, am I right in this analysis? In other 

 word, theoretically you could have this biomass out there, this level 

 of spawning fish, I guess, whatever, and if it isn't decreased in a 

 fashion and I don't know how to phrase this because I just want 

 to get to the bottom in terms of how I am looking at it, we may 

 have say like 100,000 bluefish and only need a biomass of 5,000. 

 In a given year, you might have 100,000, you might have 50,000. 



The question really is whether this biomass which is sufficient 

 to keep the fishery going historically is diminished. Is that what we 

 are asking? You are saying. Dusty, that there isn't any evidence, 

 scientific evidence, right now to see to what extent this biomass is 

 diminished. In other words, theoretically you could have a lot less 

 fish out there but the biomass isn't implicated in any way. In other 

 words, I don't know what we are talking about here. 



Mr. Rhodes. I am not saying that there is no evidence. I am just 

 raising the question that perhaps the unavailability of bluefish to 

 the coastal recreational angler is not necessarily a true indication 

 of what has happened to the biomass. 



The biomass may have reduced but it may not have reduced as 

 much as we think it has reduced. We are saying that unavailability 

 of fish is one of the measurements that indicate a biomass is not 

 there. 



The fish may be for various reasons further off shore than the 

 recreational anglers in general can reach them because we have 

 seen movements of fish appearing elsewhere along the coast that 

 can't be explained. 



In the Gulf of Maine, for example, an abundance of bluefish has 

 been seen where in the past we haven't seen those and big bluefish 

 in the Florida Keys where in the past we haven't seen those fish. 

 Why are those fish being seen? This is why I am saying that on 

 the water information is necessary to help round out what we are 

 assuming by the scientific sampling. 



But biomass may be down and we may, after doing some more 

 analysis, conclude yes, we have to put very serious constraints on 

 the fishery. I just don't know that we have enough information to 

 make that hard and fast decision that the biomass is truly reduced 

 and that is why I am asking that we incorporate more information 

 in this assessment. 



Mr. Saxton. This is a very basic question I think that has come 

 up with regard to this subject. Would you gentlemen care to com- 

 ment to give us your perspectives? 



Mr. Gilford. The scientists are not in agreement as to what has 

 happened. The one thing they seem to be in agreement about is, 

 in fact, that the biomass is down. That could be either because of 

 over-fishing or it could be because of lack of recruitment or a possi- 

 bility of the combination of the two. 



We have had commercial fishermen attending our Council meet- 

 ings telling us that they are seeing well off shore large schools of 

 large bluefish. What you have if, and let me emphasize the if, if 

 you are not having good spawning, if you are not having good re- 



