34 



word environmentalist once. They did not say timber base. It was 

 the markets. 



The Chairman. This is the statement in the record before the 

 committee by Mr. Moran back in Washington, D.C. I remember the 

 first Act, and some of you in the audience are too young to remem- 

 ber this. You said it is Uke selUng a million acres of land. The same 

 argument, and you said — if my figures are wrong, I will trade you. 

 You give me the 9 million acres and I will give you what — you can 

 have what is left. 



Mr. Edwards. Here is all I can say, is that I am not threatened 

 by you. I would just like to debate this issue, once in these twenty 

 years, on the facts, on the relevant facts. 



The Chairman. What your trouble is, Larry, is your facts do not 

 always jive. You know that. The fact is we have a renewable re- 

 source here, and you are not recognizing that. You are saying that 

 KPC and the accusations by all of you about the big timber barons. 

 Where are our little independent people? What are they going to 

 do? Would you support a sawmill? 



Mr. Edwards. Yeah, I would support a timber industry here. 



The Chairman. What kind? 



Mr. Edwards. I would like to see a very different industry than 

 we have. 



The Chairman. What kind? 



Mr. Edwards. I would like to see something that makes a large 

 number of jobs out of small amount of timber. 



The Chairman. Like what? Name it. Is it a sawmill? 



Mr. Edwards. That is for an entrepreneur to determine that. 



The Chairman. Oh. Entrepreneurs do not pay the pay checks. 



Now, the thing I am stressing, here, is why is the fear of the 

 State running it? You keep saying this is a sham. Do you have 

 some fear? You believe the Federal Government is much better 

 able to take and control land? 



Mr. Edwards. Because I have seen how the Alaska Forest Prac- 

 tices Act has worked. I have seen what has happened on Native 

 corporation lands. 



The Chairman. That is not just — Native corp. lands are private 

 lands. This is State land. 



What is the buffer zone under State law? 



Mr. Edwards. State law is a hundred feet for State land. 



The Chairman. Why did you say you might be able to repeal it? 



Mr. Edwards. Because I feel that if this — if the Tongass goes to 

 the State, I feel it is going to get privatized. 



The Chairman. Who says it is going to be different? 



Mr. Edwards. Pardon me? 



The Chairman. Who says it is going to be cut? 



Are you so afraid of your position that, in fact, people might cut 

 it? 



Mr. Edwards. I feel, as I said in my testimony, that the reason 

 you would like to transfer this to the State is because the State can 

 be stampeded much more easily than Congress. Tongass 



The Chairman. Congress cannot be stampeded. We were stam- 

 peded when we built the oil line. You know that. The Congress can 

 make just as adverse conditions to you in your position that far 



