43 



logging was beach logging, A-frames, high-grading for airplanes, 

 which, by the way, you cannot hardly find that area in which he 

 logged in. 



But, getting back to dispel this myth that there is a great oppor- 

 tunity for the small entrepreneur out there. If the Forest Service 

 manages this timber, you have to put up the sale, and the way you 

 have to put up the sales, if there are no mills, is the high-grading 

 system, and I do not know how you can do it. I do not see how you 

 can physically put up that type sale with all the restrictions, which 

 reminds me. 



As the heroes of this movement, how many times have you been 

 sued by the environmental community in Southeast Alaska? 



Mr. Morrison. Total or just this week? 



The Chairman. Total, and this week. 



Mr. Morrison. Many times total. Definitely once this week and 

 likely twice this week. 



The Chairman. Do you have any estimates as to the costs that 

 it takes out of your budget for legal fees? 



Mr. Morrison. We do not keep track of those costs specifically. 

 They are absorbed in all of the programs. When we need wildlife 

 assistance to deal with a lawsuit, it comes out of wildlife. If we 

 need timber, foresters' assistance, it comes out of there. Funds that 

 are fairly specific are those that we pay through the Office of Gen- 

 eral Counsel, which is our attorney branch. There are millions of 

 dollars annually tied up in lawsuits. 



The Chairman. What has been your success ratio? 



Mr. Morrison. I guess it depends on how you might define suc- 

 cess. We have been successful in that we have either won where 

 our position has been correct or we have come to good compromises 

 with appellants where there were questions raised and issues that 

 were valid. I guess I feel pretty good about our success ratio. I do 

 not feel very good about how long it takes the process. 



The Chairman. Would you do me a favor, and I am going to ask 

 Janke and I am going to ask Mr. Jack Ward Thomas, what effect 

 that will have on the Alaska forestry and the changing of the con- 

 tract, because if that Supreme Court contract stands, it is very, 

 very damaging to the taxpayer, big time, in the billions of dollars. 

 You are not a lawyer or a geologist, but you might want to have 

 them start looking at this because this has far ramifications in the 

 Supreme Court. 



Anything else you want to add, Gary? 



Mr. Morrison. No, I think that is it. 



The Chairman. You are not out of here yet. 



Gary, an3^hing else you would like to add? 



If not, I again want to compliment your professionalism, and, 

 overall, the professionals of the Forest Service, because you are 

 caught in betwixt and between. I would feel much more com- 

 fortable if you could make the decisions. I have said this many, 

 many years. We would not even have this discussion if we could 

 make the decisions on the local level by the agencies. It used to be 

 done, and, unfortunately, that is changed and the centralized gurus 

 want to centralize the government is the reason I have introduced 

 this bill, to try to get decisions made back with public input and 

 decisionmakers from a local level. People may object to that, but 



