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are not compatible, the goshawk or something else, that cannot be 

 compatible? 



Mr. Powell. Again, let me ask, sir. I am not sure what you 

 mean by "compatible." 



The Chairman. If we stop logging because — suppose it was not 

 compatible, but you are a manager of logging — and I go back to my 

 private-sector logging industry, which is now providing two-thirds 

 of the fiber in the Nation today, not the national forest, which has 

 over — remember, they only have one-eighth of the land mass — they 

 also manage it for conservation. They also manage it for Fish and 

 Wildlife. Are we doing any of that? 



Mr. Powell. We certainly are. 



The Chairman. Where? 



Mr. Powell. The issues are HCAs, though, that you bring up 

 and the reason that they are in the preferred alternative at this 

 point really deals with trying to apply what we see is the regula- 

 tion to deal with viability of wildlife species, and that deals with 

 both the distribution and persistence of wildlife species, and it is 

 a concern not about the loss of those species; it is a concern about 

 the amount being distributed in a similar manner as they are 

 today. 



To be more specific, that would mean that, for instance, wolves 

 or goshawks might not be found on north Prince of Wales Island 

 anymore, not that we would not have wolves anymore, and that is 

 the real issue that HCAs are designed to try and address. 



The Chairman. Use of HCAs in the Tongass, was there any data 

 from Alaska put into these programs? 



Mr. Powell. There is some data. 



The Chairman. Some. Most is coming from outside, by outside 

 forests, by outside heads above you? 



Mr. Powell. The majority of work on HCAs has been done in 

 other parts of the country. 



The Chairman. I think that is the frustration I face and people 

 in this room face, other than those that want to have no logging 

 at all. Again, it goes back: Why are not you making the decision? 

 Why is not Mr. Janik making them or Gary making the decisions? 

 Why does it have to come from outside? 



Mr. Powell. We do not — as you well know, we have been har- 

 vesting timber here in Southeast Alaska primarily only for the last 

 40 years. We do not have the research base here that they have 

 in other parts of the country. 



The Chairman. How can they research from abroad and make 

 decisions for Tongass? 



Mr. Powell. A lot of the research, we think, is applicable, but 

 we would certainly like to have more research locally, and we are 

 in the process of trying to develop that. 



The Chairman. One thing about it. Brad, this meeting would 

 never have been held if, in fact, the Forest Service was managed 

 as it was before by the local control. I remember Sanders and Mike 

 Barton, they made decisions, you made decisions. Decisions were 

 made with the community, and there was the same controversy 

 then, but it was made in the community and you had to live with 

 it. 



