43 



effect of those total decisions. We think that is all part of ecosystem 

 management. 



Mr. Vento. Yes. I think your challenge, especially with the land 

 ownership pattern in the O&C lands, represents an extraordinary 

 challenge to try to work with the State and/or other private owners 

 of those lands. 



One of our goals has always been to try to study that process to 

 see if we could come up with some degree of consolidation, but that 

 is a really difficult challenge. I am reminded of the fact that even 

 in the Gallatin where we had these outstanding natural lands last 

 week, it has taken since 1925 to come up with a consolidation of 

 about 80,000 acres out there in Montana. So these ideas sound 

 good and practical when we are sitting here in the rarified air of 

 the committee room, but out in the field, on the ground, they are 

 tough to accomplish. 



I want to thank Joyce Fleischman for her work, and we hope we 

 can welcome you back, Joyce, when you conclude the latest review 

 of the Department of the Interior's activities in the O&C lands in 

 Oregon. We will get a more current report on where the policy path 

 has led with regard to these programs. Ultimately, we won't be 

 looking back, or retrospectively, at what is going on but prospec- 

 tively of what can be done in these areas, wluch of course is being 

 kicked off this week again, with the optimism and hope that there 

 will be ultimately a solution to this issue. 



The gentleman from Oregon, Mr. DeFazio, do you have any fur- 

 ther questions? 



Mr. DeFazio. No, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Vento. Thank you all very much. 



We are pleased to welcome a panel of distinguished witnesses. 



[Pause.] 



Mr. Vento. Let me just call up the panel. We may be interrupted 

 by votes, but I think we can probably get one or two of the testi- 

 monies done before we have to go. 



I am pleased to welcome Neil Sampson, the executive vice presi- 

 dent of the American Forests; Dr. Gregory Aplet, the senior ecolo- 

 gist of the Wilderness Society; Mr. Jack Desmond, the director of 

 the Northwest Reforestation Contractors Association of Eugene; 

 and, finally, Frank Gladics, vice president of the Western Forest 

 Industries Association. 



Mr. Sampson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Vento. We will have to leave in about ten minutes to make 

 our vote, but I thought we could perhaps at least hear from one or 

 maybe more of you at this time. 



Mr. Sampson, why don't you proceed with your testimony and 

 svunmarize or read the relevant portions of it. 



