46 



it by redefining those lands out of the timber base. Therefore, the 

 backlog disappeared. 



Mr. Vento. Well, as you noted, I was trying to get more defini- 

 tion on that. 



Mr. DeFazio. And what has happened to those lands since, to 

 the best of your knowledge? 



Mr. Sampson. To the best of my knowledge, they are still iust 

 sort of sitting there, and what is distressing to us is that the data 

 collection on them stopped happening, so that today, if you ask 

 what of that land base is physically incapable, biologically incapa- 

 ble, of being reforested versus the stuff that is iust plain nasty and 

 tough or it has just grown up to a brush field ana nobody wants 

 to address it, the answer is, the data isn't there. 



You can go to any ranger district you want to £ind ask if they 

 have got some, and the answer is yes; ask where it is at, and they 

 will snow you; ask them if they would like to do something about 

 it, and the answer is yes. That is why our Heritage Forest Program 

 works as well as it does. I really ought to single out BLM, who has 

 probably been more aggressive than Forest Service in looking for 

 these kinds of opportunities. 



At any rate, there is a difference between a reforestation backlog 

 and a reinvestment opportunity, and you really need to poke at it 

 to get at it because you won't get it out of the national data, in my 

 judgment. 



I am going to stop with that. You know, the jobs abound out 

 there, let's face it, and they are not just tree planting because, 

 quite frankly, that isn't where all the new jobs are going to be cre- 

 ated in the longer term. The thinning, the pruning, the fuel reduc- 

 tion, the prescribed burning that are needed to get those forests 

 back in condition, that is more fire tolerant so that we have less 

 disaster — wildfires. 



You poked at the pruning idea a little bit. Well, there is more 

 than quality timber mvolved in pruning. Where those forests are 

 abounding with those ladder limbs, dead ladder limbs, that give 

 you high opportunity for crown fires, pruning can be a huge help 

 in reducing that risk and in fire hardening those stands so that a 

 ground fire is more likely and more tolerable. 



So those areas exist. It is particularly important that they work 

 around the areas where they are already roaded, where the houses 

 are, and where the risks are high. 



The money that we are investing in this ought to both be ac- 

 counted for m terms of its investment as a future resource oppor- 

 tunity, but it ought to be accounted for as a fire risk reduction too. 

 We just open the money pump and pour it all over those wildfires 

 that start out there, and, quite frankly, a lot of that stuff can be 

 prevented if we do the investment in forest improvement that is 

 out there right now. 



With that, Mr. Chairman, I would stop and, obviously, would be 

 happy to answer questions. 



[Prepared statement of Mr. Sampson follows:] 



Statement of R. Neil Sampson, Executive Vice President 



Mr. Chairman, Members of the Subcommittee: 



I am Neil Sampson, Executive Vice President of American Forests. Our Associa- 

 tion has been concerned with the management and future of America's forest since 



