26 



Mr. Schoning, last year in the pourse of similar hearings by this 

 committee, I asked you questions about the porpoise populations. 

 Your response at that time was there had been surveys, estimates 

 made of certain species, I think there were three species, if I recall, 

 and I am wondering now if you have been able to expand that survey 

 to include other species, and whether you have any more accurate 

 estimates on which to base the quota thai you mentioned, that is men- 

 tioned on page 1 of Mr. Pollock's testimony. 



Mr. Schoning. Dr. Pox will answer that. 



Dr. Fox. dust as a little bit of background. The group of popula- 

 tion experts that met in La Jolla identified 21 possible or tentative 

 stocks of porpoises in the Eastern Pacific. They were combined for 

 management purposes into 17 stock management units. Of those 17 

 stock management units, we were able to come up with population 

 est i mates for 13. There were no estimates for 4 of the 17 units. 



Mr. Oberstar. What do they total for those 17? 



Dr. Fox. Approximately 8 million. 



Mr. Oberstar. Eight million, and are the quotas you are going to be 

 recognizing based on that population estimate ? 



Mr. Pollock. Again, I would prefer that we not go into that at 



this time. 



I really regret not being at liberty to answer these questions to the 

 best of our ability, but we simply cannot. 



Mr. Oberstar. Then let me observe. 



It seems very reasonable, based on the face of 8 million, it is sub- 

 stantially larger than the 3 million count that you were about to pro- 

 vide the committee in our hearings last year. 



You have done a commendable job in reducing the number of kill 

 down to 100,000. It is a very inconsequential number compared to the 



stocks. 



What is based on that 8 million, what is the number your scientists 

 estimate died of natural causes in the course of a year? 



Dr. Fox. First, I would like to qualify the 8 million. The 8 million 

 is for all 13, however three principal species and stocks account for 

 95 percent of the mortality. 



The midpoint estimate of the population for those three species is 

 roughly 5Vo million. But that is the midpoint estimate. We have 

 approximate limits on 3% to 7y 2 million. 



So it could be as low as 3V 2 million under our present understand- 

 ing of the situation, or as high as 7i/ 2 million. 



We have estimates of natural mortality rates for just one stock of 



animal. 



The principal stock involved, the offshore spotted dolphin, is at 

 about 9 percent per year. Its midpoint estimate is about 3.7 million, 

 so on the order of 350,000 animals per year of that population die 

 naturally. 



Mr. Oberstar. Do you have estimates of the number of dolphins 

 taken by foreign fishing fleets in the same area where ours are fishing? 



Dr. Fox. We may have made estimates, although estimates of the 

 foreign fleets are very difficult. 



