164 



origin in the terms of the Marino Mammal Protection Act which 

 we can neither amend nor ignore." 



This is similar to other views expressed in other courts. They have 

 looked at various cases in connection with this tuna-porpoise issue. 



I am fully convinced, Mr. Chairman, that there need to be some 

 changes in the act as it is now written. I have testified to this pre- 

 viously before this committee. These are my views. They are being 

 considered by the Department of Commerce and the administration. 

 As of this point, no decision on this has been reached. 



But my view is, unless we do make some changes in the act, we are 

 going to continue to careen from crisis to crisis, which is what we 

 have been doing for the last year and a half. 



The members of this committee and I others in this room have 

 discussed the various issues surrounding the implementation of this 

 act, and I think the time has come when we must provide for changes 

 in the act which will allow for the industry to continue with its very 

 vital work, and also provide for the reduction of porpoise mortality. 

 I believe this can be done. 



Now, we can go into very great detail with regard to the various 

 regulations that we have promulgated. I will be glad to answer any 

 questions and my associates will help me, Mr. Chairman. 

 Mr. Leggett. Very good. 



Mr. Leggett. I believe that this committee fully subscribes to 

 those concepts as does the Department of Commerce. T fully believe 

 that the targets of the Marine Mammal Protection Act reasonablv 

 can be achieved, and also that we can keep the U.S. tuna industry the 

 most viable American fishery. 



We have some misunderstandings from time to time, and we have 

 some hurdles to circumvent from time to time. We have some differ- 

 ences of opinion. We have some fishermen who want no inhibitions 

 whatsoever on their operations and, clearly, that cannot persist. 



We have other folks that in their efforts to be concerned with 

 mammals want no fishing whatsoever to occur, and obviously, that is 

 not going to occur. 



So we need our reasonable people addressing a formidable prob- 

 lem. We are in the posture of a crisis at the present time. 



We have here regulations which we. at one time, attempted to mold 

 from this committee. We found out that the oversight of this com- 

 mittee was only limited because laws that are enacted by the Con- 

 gress have plain meanings, and it is only when those plain meanings 

 are obscured that we have discretion and oversight to spell out what 

 that meaning is. 



Agency representatives in courts are all limited in what thev can 

 do in interpretations and. many times, the courts have said if this 

 means that there is some confusion, so be it, because our job is to in- 

 terpret the law as Congress gives it to us. and if they give us a 

 bucket of sand, in words so to speak, a bucket of sand is what we 

 administer and what we relate to. 



So T beliovo that the targets of the Marine Mammal Act are rea- 

 sonably sacrosanct, and I believe the target of a viable American 

 fishery is what this committee is all about, to redevelop those 

 fisheries that have not come up to the posture of the American tuna 

 industry. 



