169 



With respect to the incidental catch, it may not be retained unless a specific 

 permit has been obtained authorizing the retention. 



Dr. White, does that in any way involve operations like Sea World, 

 where they have the trained porpoises for people to visit ? 



Dr. White. There is a totally separate sv^tem for display permits 

 which are submitted by groups like Sea World, and criteria have 

 been set up in accordance with which such permits for display are 

 granted. 



Mr. de la Garza. I do not have access to 216.3. I do not know how 

 that reads. Is that the section that allows for a special permit for 

 those ? 



Dr. White. It is the definition of take incidental to commercial 

 fishing. 



Mr. de la Garza. Thank you. 



Mr. Leggett. OK. 



Mr. de la Garza. Mr. Chairman, I have one more, if I might, be- 

 cause unless vou have a permit for the retention, like if they — you 

 are talking of maybe only one, but if there is an injured mammal and 

 like, periodically, you have an injured deer or bear or something, 

 that there is a possibility that you could retain it. I do not know if it 

 could board a tuna boat or not, but if that were done, then they 

 would be in violation unless they have a permit on hand always to 

 do that? 



Dr. White. Yes. 



Mr. Leggett. All right. 



We have got some questions here that staff has prepared. 



We would like to explore the steps leading to the production of 

 the final regulations which are the subject of this hearing. 



A, is it true that one of the important documents used in the de- 

 velopment of regulations was the Report of the Workshop on the 

 Sto^k Assessment of Porpoises involved in the eastern pacific yellow- 

 fin tuna industrv issued at La Jolla, Calif., in Septmber, 1976? 



Dr. White. Yes. 



Mr. Leggett. That is one of the things that was used? 



Dr. White. Yes. 



Mr. Legoett. It is my understanding that this optimum sustain- 

 able population workshop report did not make a finding that any 

 porpoise involved in the fishery was biologically depleted. Is that 



correct ? 



Dr. Whtte. The depletion definition in the law is not one of bio- 

 logical depletion. It is a definition of depletion which relates to the 

 optimum sustainable population and when the stock falls below opti- 

 mum sustainable population, then, in terms of the law we are obli- 

 gated to call it depleted. . 



In the case of the porpoises, thev are not biologically depleted. 



Mr. Anoerson. What would be the difference? 



Dr White. There is no definition of the word "depletion' other 

 than that which is in the act which refers to optimum sustainable 



population. . ... 



When we are talking about biological depletion, we are talking 

 about a stock that has been reduced to such a very, very low level 

 that it is either threatened or endangered with extinction. That is 

 not the case in the stocks of the porpoises. 



