176 



Mr. Leggett. I looked at that. It showed a number of agencies had, 

 in fact, recommended the 6.000 take. 



Dr. White. That is correct. 



Mr. Leggett. Including the Marine Mammal Commission. 



Dr. White. That is correct. 



Mr. Leggett. It recommended 6,000 for the eastern spinner. 



Dr. White. That is correct. 



Mr. Leggett. As an incidental and accidental taking. 



Dr. White. There is a big difference. 



Mr. Leggett. I presume that. I presume what they mean was you 

 you can set on mixed schools and if you accidentally take 6,000, that 

 would be a limit? 



Dr. White. No; they, of course, will be testifying later this morn- 

 ing or this afternoon, but my interpretation of what they meant by | 

 that is that they did not consider it proper to set on mixed schools, 

 but that if you did set on a school which notwithstanding all the 

 good intentions of the fishermen by accident had some eastern spin- 

 ners in it the Commission would be willing to see a number of eastern I 

 spinners taken, up to 6,500 as we discussed this morning. 



Mr. Leggett. I meant to say the same thing except that I said it 

 a little differently. 



Mr. McCloskey is here and he has some questions. You are recog- 

 nized. 



Mr. McCloskey. Thank you. 



I have to go back to the cargo preference hearing. 



I note there is a bill, S. 373, introduced on January 19 by Senator 

 Hyakawa. Did your office provide anv help to him in preparing this 

 bill? 



Dr. White. Yes. 



Mr. McCloskey. Dr. White, in 1976, what proportion of 400 tons 

 or over boats going out had observers? 



Dr. White. Fifteen percent. 



Mr. McCloskey. What was the porpoise kill on observed boats 

 compared to the porpoise kill reported by boats that did not have 

 observers? What was the ratio? 



Dr. White. Could I address this question to Dr. Fox? 



Mr. McCloskey. Surely. 



Dr. Fox. I think this question came up the last time. I do not recall 

 the exact number for 1976, but the point is the reported kill on ves- 

 sels without observers who turned in marine mammal log sheets was, 

 on the average, significantly less than the average kill reported on 

 vessels that had observers on board. 



Mr. McCloskey. Was it as small as one-sixth of the reported kill 

 on the boats that had observers ? 



Dr. Fox. I believe that was the figure for the early part. 



Mr. McCloskey. So we have 140 boats of 400 tons or more, 10 per- 

 cent to 15 percent of them have observers and the observed boats re- 

 port six times as many kills as the boats that do not have observers on 

 board. 



Xow, it does not sound reasonable to me that a skipper with a De- 

 partment of Commerce observer on board is going to kill six times 

 as many porpoises as a skipper that does not have an observer. Does 

 that seem reasonable to you, sir ? 



