205 



spent in port. In the past those wishing to qualify for a "free',' trip 

 have been a significant portion of the fleet. I don't wish to overstate 

 the point. 



Mr. Leggett. I think your statements on eastern spinners are help- 

 ful ; also your statements on the problem with the industry, and the 

 fact that 'if the kill rate of the 20 boats with fine mesh net were ex- 

 trapolated across the fleet, that they would have a very fine record, 

 which is true. I think that maybe at this point I have no more 

 Questions. 



Mr. Butler. I would like to point out again to the chairman that 

 yesterday and today there were filed with the U. S. court of appeals 

 additional papers by the Government and the industry asking that 

 some taking of porpoise be permitted before the 1977 regulations 

 became, final. Griffin Bell has himself signed the Government's sub- 

 mission to the court. We are supporting that effort by the Govern- 

 ment and the industry to get an interim regime, or in other words, 

 on porpoise fishing started as soon as is possible. I want that to be 

 clearly understood because it is a compromise position which is caus- 

 ing us a great deal of anguish, but one to which we firmly adhere. 



Mr. Leggett. All right. 



Mr. Butler. It is wrong, as some people have made the sweeping 

 indictment, that evironmentalists are trying to keep the tuna industry 

 from fishing at all because of the porpoises. It just isn't so. 



Mr. Leggett. Now, the Government agreed with the calculations 

 I made that the prohibition on setting on eastern spinners would 

 probably preclude on the average only about 10 percent of the bluefin, 

 skipjack, and yellowfin sets with and without porpoise that are made. 

 Do you agree? 



Mr. Butler. As I understand it, that is correct. The statement 

 that was made by Dr. Fox was that 20 percent of yellowfin tuna 

 taken on porpoise are taken on mixed schools with eastern spinners. 

 Of course, a lot of tuna is not taken on porpoise at all, so that gets 

 the figure down to the 10 percent you mentioned. That would be my 

 best understanding, but I am relying on Government figures for that. 



Mr. Leggett. All right. Mr. Rogers? 



Mr. Rogers. I am just wondering if you have 100-percent observ- 

 ers on all vessels, which I understand you think would be a good idea, 

 Avho should pay for it ? 



Mr. Butler. I think the industry. I don't know if you were here 

 when I testified to that. I would agree with Mr. McCloskey that I 

 think the industry should pay for that, but not get caught with the 

 ultimate cost. 



In other words, they should pass it on to the consumer. It is the 

 consumer of tuna who is ultimately benefitting by the industry being 

 able to fish on porpoise, and also by the industry being able to fish in 

 compliance with the law. 



It is our understanding of the industry's economics that this would 

 not raise the price of tunafish per can by any substantial amount; 

 neither would it cause the industry, therefore, great financial pain. 

 They could and would pass this cost through to the consumer. 



"While I recognize a can of tuna undoubtedly has a price beyond 

 which buyer resistance sets in, in other words, the demand curve is a 



