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Mr. Leggett. We are not going to get into that. 



Mr. Royal. We are not? 



Mr. Leggett. I stipulated that we would avoid personal issues. 



Mr. Royal. Who stipulated as to what? I did not get that. 



Mr. Leggett. I said, we agreed, I agreed, that we do not need any 

 evidence to refute what has been said. 



We can spend all day here talking about that. 



Mr. Royal. I get your point. 



I think with the fobs that are at stake, I think that the industry 

 is not going to lay down very easy. 



Mr. Leggett. I appreciate that. 



If this committee has anything to say about it, the industry is not 

 going to lay down either. It is going to remain healthy, 



Mr. Royal. When we were attacked in 1941, it was the tuna boats 

 and the tuna captains that gave the United States its eyes and ears 

 of defense — it was not the porpoise. 



Mr. Leggett. Exactly. 



There is no doubt about it. 



Without Mr. Studds here, I will state that the most effective and 

 efficient part of the American fishing fleet is the tuna fleet. 



We are very proud of the work that the tuna fleet does. 



Who wants to speak next? 



Mr. Felando. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I am August Felando, General Manager of the American Tuna- 

 boat Association, San Diego, Calif. 



Members of our Association are the owners of the tuna vessels. 



Many of the owners are skipper operators, for instance, like Cap- 

 tain Joe Medina, to my right. 



Mr. Leggett. One of the great pioneers in saving porpoise, I might 

 say. 



I will also state this, that the progress that has been made in sav- 

 ing porpoise has, in large part, been made by the industry, albeit 

 with some nudging from some environmentalists. 



Mr. Felando. It is really the objective we have, the objective of 

 any fisherman right now, believe it, and has been in my opinion, to 

 have a zero mortality on porpoise. 



The fact is, that you are more efficient, more effective a fisherman 

 when you use the porpoise not only as hunting dogs to find fish, but 

 if you release them out of the net alive, you can make that one more 

 set that will get you home faster. 



That is the economic motivation that sometimes I think most 

 people forget. 



Plus the fact that without the porpoise, we would not be in busi- 

 ness today, we would not be able to adjust to the seizure problem. 



We would not be able to adjust to the conservation program in the 

 Eastern Pacific. 



That is because contrary to the information that was contained in 

 Mr. Butler's statement, the traditional fishing area within 150 miles, 

 200 miles, off the coast, association of porpoise roughly 40 percent — 

 40 percent of the time you are going to find yellowfin with porpoise. 



From that point to the rest of the CYRA, going out another thou- 

 sand miles, the association jumps up to 85 percent; 85 percent of the 

 time you have to use porpoise to catch tuna. 



