219 



Outside the CYRA, Mr. Butler is saying, 95 percent of the time, 

 although the Director of the Investigations for the Inter- American 

 Tropical Tuna Commission said it is closer to 99 percent. 



So our survival, economic survival, is based on our ability to live 

 with porpoise, not kill them. 



Mr. Leggett. Do you have any information how long it takes 

 a released group of porpoise to group up again with yellowfin? 



Have you ever set on a group of porpoise that has not yet had an 

 opportunity to meld with a group of yellowfin? 



Mr. Felando. There is a lot of statistical information on that that 

 occurred on a scientific cruise in 1971 that involved Captain Medina 

 and his vessel, the Queen Mary. 



We used a radio pack at that time to follow porpoise. We placed 

 a radio pack transmitter on the porpoise, and followed the porpoise 

 overnight. 



Joe, do you want to comment on that and give an answer? 



Mr. Medina. My name is Joe Medina. 



We made a scientific research trip in 1971 following a school for 5 

 days and set on each day, and one problem we had, the school kept 

 getting larger every day with mostly spinners. It was a mixed school. 



We took an observer again the next trip and we found a real good 

 school, large school, good fish on it. We made a set at dark, about 

 5 p.m. 



Mr. Leggett. You did not send them to the same school? 



Mr. Medina. Yes. 



Mr. Leggett. Did you get fish? 



Mr. Medina. We got little fish every day. 



Next trip we used it, we found a good school, we set late in the 

 afternoon, say about 5 o'clock, and got about 130 tons out of that 

 school. 



We followed the school that night. 



The next morning we were right on top of the school, we set at 8 

 o'clock in the morning and got 130 tons again out of the same 

 school, which gives you an example how fast they pick up fish. 



Mr. Felando. One of our recommendations that has not been ac- 

 cepted yet. We feel with this radio pack we would be making fewer 

 sets on porpoise. 



Because I think somebody in the agency expressed alarm about the 

 fact that we have these radio packs, we do not cause any damage 

 to the porpoise, they refused to allow the industry to use that device. 



Mr. Leggett. Very interesting. 



Mr. Felando. I am reminded of the old theory, when you do not 

 have the facts, attack the man. 



I am very much concerned about what happened this morning. 



Let me say this, Mr. Chairman ; I will make a very short statement. 



The whole basis for the yellowfin tuna conservation program has 

 been based on the logbook entries of the fishermen. That has been 

 going on since 1950. 



The fishermen at administrative law judge hearing, and there 

 were many of them, I think there were over 20 witnesses and more 

 available, they went on oath and they w T ere subjected to cross-exami- 

 nation in the very areas that we are discussing about mixed schools, 

 spinners. 



