224 



With respect to the spotters, which the administrative law judge 

 made a recommendation. T think, of 65,000, based on the scientific 

 personnel of the National Marine Fisheries Service, as I understand 

 it, the final rates come ont with a figure of 43,000. 



Bfy information is that we cannot live with that. 



That risk declines as we move toward the 65,000 figure. 



I think Frank Alverson would be better equipped to handle that 

 particular point as to what is necessary for this fleet to have in 1977. 



Mr. Anderson. Yon are talking about the total of 81,000? 



Mr. Felando. I think that is what the total comes out to. 



I will defer that, to Frank. 



I would like at this point to clear up the spinner situation and the 

 problem associated with it. 



We have listened to a lot of people trying to describe the problem 

 which the fishermen have at sea and I would like to have a fisher- 

 man testify in this area. 



Joe. 



Mr. Medina. Let me say we cannot survive without set on mixed 

 schools. 



Dr. Fox said it was 20 percent. 



I think it varies on different boats. Last year we set on 60 percent 

 of our schools, were mixed schools. 



Mr. Leggett. That is on your boat? 



Mr. Medina. Yes ; our boat, last year. 



Spinners are not only found in the CYRA area. I fished spinners 

 from a 1,000 to 1.500 miles out at sea. 



Mr. Leggett. Have you reviewed Dr. Fox's data? 



Mr. Medina.. No, I have just looked at some of the area marked 

 here that they found spinners about 1,500 miles out to sea. 



This area from 115, which CYRA line is moved in 115 longitude 

 to 125 longitude, that is almost straight eastern spinners. 



I have seen large schools mixed there with the spotters. 



As far as Mr. Butler saying that it is real easy to tell if there are 

 spinners in a school, or thev are mixed school, it is not that easy. In 

 fact, I do not think Mr. Butler could tell what a spotter was and 

 what a spinner is if he was out there. 



Mr. Butler. I think that remark is wrong and is a stupid state- 

 ment to have made, since I do have some sea experience observing 

 porpoise species. 



Excuse this outburst. 



I do not like that sort of ad homine-m discourtesy any more than 

 Mr. Felando likes to hear tuna fishermen called liars. 



Mr. Medina. I am not being discourteous. 



It is not that easy to tell an eastern spinner from a white belly 

 spinner. 



A lot of times if the porpoise are moving and jumping, it is easv to 

 tell there are spinners in the school because the way they jump, they 

 spin. 



A lot of times, it is not moving much and not jumping, and one 

 school starts moving and running together, and they do not jump 

 that way. 



