36 



kid to hurt himself on it because he had a deep-pocket defendant 

 sitting there. 



We wanted out of the deal; couldn't do it. I sat eight years in the 

 legislature; couldn't do it. Sat two years as speaker of the house. 

 I couldn't do it. And I finally got back here, and we put an omnibus 

 bill together which we took 11 States, and we did it. Why did it 

 take that? Why did it take all those years to move a little teeny 

 piece of ground in the little Town of Farmington, Utah? I will never 

 understand. 



But we did that for 11 States, and Members of Congress all came 

 in with the same kind of horror stories. Somebody in Riverside, 

 California, had one. Somebody in Oregon had one. And so that is 

 probably our fault, that we have made it so cumbersome you folks 

 have to go through all of these steps and take these years, and the 

 people who are trying to make the exchanges, they say, "Well, what 

 they do is they bore us to death," or, "They keep putting a new guy 

 on it, and we finally give up." 



And that is the theory that the Forest Service, the BLM, and 

 Fish and Wildlife, and everybody has. I don't really think that is 

 true, but I think maybe a lot of the responsibility rests here — not 

 there, but up here because we give you such a cumbersome thing 

 to deal with. So all we want to do is streamline it a little bit if we 

 can. 



So when you bring up the point we can't exchange with the ski 

 resorts, I think the fault rests here. But when you say, "We do 

 have the right to do it," yes, that is right, but we don't see it occur- 

 ring. I don't mean that to zero in on you, and please don't take it 

 that way. I am just saying it becomes difficult. 



Director Kennedy brings up the problems he has on the things 

 of concessioners. We want free competition, but in our bill — and I 

 am not defending — we may change it — who knows — we are just 

 working on it — we say, "Well, but the guy who is the concessioner 

 ought to have some rights a little better than somebody else be- 

 cause he has put in the blood, sweat, and tears." 



Maybe he did it, and I look at some of these fellows out in the 

 area that we represent that have been there a long time — a family 

 business. They have put a lot into it. I don't want to jerk away 

 their rights and what they have. That doesn't seem right to me. So 

 we hope we can come to something on this. 



The problem we get around here is we get extremists. You know, 

 the environmental community came along, and they probably gave 

 us a great wake-up call, and we all needed it in the 1960's and 

 1970's; made us more acutely aware of the environment which is 

 probably right. But we get so extreme. "Take only pictures, leave 

 only footprints" becomes a little ridiculous in some instances. 



My friend, Mr. Vento, talks about inholdings. I would like to see 

 every inholding out of your parks, Roger. I would like to see every 

 inholding out. But I don't agree with that when it comes to Forest 

 Service. The Forest Service is a different ballgame. It is huge. 

 There are a lot of areas where it almost necessitates people being 

 in that area. And those of us who were raised in the West and have 

 been all through that area, we can see those areas. 



So I don't have the aversion of inholdings in Forest Service or 

 BLM, but I do in your area. I would like to get them out of the 



