13 



Mr. Hansen. Thank you. Other members of the committee have 

 a question for our colleague from Kansas? The gentlelady from 

 Idaho. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Mr. Chairman, I have a question of Mrs. Mey- 

 ers. You started to say 4 percent is relatively low. I would like you 

 to finish that for my edification. 



Mrs. Meyers. Well, I think the concessions paid — I mean, it is 

 very hard to compare these, and I will grant that because in some 

 cases concessioners — the point Mr. Cooley made — are involved with 

 making construction, and in some places it is just a concession as 

 in an airport or another public area. But I do know that they go 

 as high as 25 to 50 percent in some areas, but I don't think you 

 can compare them. I think it has to be one on one. 



However, I think because two other bills have been introduced, 

 one by the Chairman of this committee, I think there is general 

 agreement that the concessions returned to the government for the 

 benefit of the taxpayer and for the benefit of the parks should be 

 higher. I don't think there is any real disagreement on that. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. I appreciate that because you mentioned that 

 actually a formula for reimbursement for facilities would be based 

 on the depreciated value, and unless we see a higher return on in- 

 vestment, you know, that is squeezing concessioners in from both 

 ends, and it won't open up competition I don't think. I think it may 

 close it down. 



Mrs. Meyers. I just think we have to get a fairer method than 

 possessory interests, and I think Mr. Hansen's bill addresses that 

 also. I am not sure about Mr. Hansen's bill, but I do think you ad- 

 dress possessory interest; also that is unique only to the park sys- 

 tem. I think it was granted initially to get people into the parks, 

 and I think it was probably all right then. I think we simply need 

 to do something to change that system now. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. I too want to thank you. It is certainly a 

 pleasure to see the chairman of the Small Business Committee 

 here. Thank you very much. 



Mrs. Meyers. Thank you. 



Mr. Hansen. Thank you. In your bill, you speak of the adverse 

 consequences of preferential right of renewal and competition for 

 concession contracts. Yet, your bill grants this right to 80 percent. 

 Is that the best way to ensure competition? 



Mrs. Meyers. It is the smaller ones, Mr. Hansen. It is those who 

 have less than $500,000 in gross revenue and no possessory inter- 

 est. Sometimes they are called mom and pops although $500,000 

 in gross revenue sounds like a high number. It really is not for the 

 smaller operators, and so they are exempt from this competition. 

 I think that there was some concern last year about the smaller 

 operators, and we addressed it in the bill last year and in H.R. 773. 



Mr. Hansen. You think $500,000 is a good cut? And you say $1 

 under and you are OK. You go $1 over, you got trouble, huh? 



Mrs. Meyers. Well, I think you have to draw the line someplace, 

 and that is what we did. 



Mr. Hansen. I am glad you were here when the GAO was talk- 

 ing. I hope you noticed that they said the aspect of your bill to buy 

 out possessory interests would direct hundreds of millions of dol- 

 lars away from the parks and into the acquisition of properties. 



