33 



Mr. DOOLEY. And, rather, if it was logged or selectively logged 

 or burned, you would never see it regenerate to the same state that 

 it is currently? 



Mr. J. Thomas. That is quite likely, yes. 



Mr. DoOLEY. In finding 10, it says the policy of the U.S. Forest 

 Service has been to encourage logging of ancient forest habitats, in- 

 cluding that of the giant sequoias. Now, is that accurate to say that 

 the policy currently is to encourage logging, and it says including 

 of the giant sequoias as U.S. Forest Service policy? 



Mr. J. Thomas. Well, it would be better if we understood the full 

 history of these forests. Most of the logging of the giant sequoias, 

 I think, took place back around the turn of the century. We did log 

 some until recently. That is probably where a number of the boards 

 that built the houses in California came from. 



I think what has evolved over time, there was a time within my 

 career in which there was a fairly clear consensus that we should 

 rapidly convert decadent old-growth forests, in quotations, to 

 younger, more vigorous forests. Following all the rules of scarcity, 

 suddenly there was science that was developing and everything 

 else, but when those cathedral forests began to become rare, then 

 the controversy began to step up, £uid we suddenly said, "Wait a 

 minute. Maybe what we have done up to this point is logical." 



But at some point new information comes to bear, new public de- 

 sires come to bear, new ways of viewing things come to bear, and 

 that has happened, and that is why we are changing things very 

 rapidly. 



In the Pacific Northwest, for example, we have already reduced 

 suddenly, in almost a flash of historical time, gone from over 4 bil- 

 lion board feet a year to 1 billion; significantly in northern Califor- 

 nia as well; elsewhere in the United States. These things enter a 

 process of evolutionary change, understanding and pattern and 

 public desire. 



But there was a considerable consensus until 10 or 15 years ago 

 that that is what we should do. That consensus is changing. 



Mr. DoOLEY. So the accurate statement would be, the policy is 

 no longer for the U.S. Forest Service to encourage the logging of 

 ancient forests or the sequoia redwoods, certainly. 



Mr. J. Thomas. I would not go that far. I think we have all of 

 our giant sequoia protected. All the groves of sequoias are pro- 

 tected. 



As a general statement for the U.S. Forest Service, however, say 

 in the President's option 9 plan for the northern spotted owl region, 

 still a considerable amount of old growth remains in the cutting 

 base. 



Mr. DoOLEY. Sure. If I could just have the liberty of a couple of 

 others here, it says also in item 11 that at the current rate of log- 

 ging in the Sequoia National Forest, it is estimated that all the 

 ecologically significant unprotected forest will be destroyed within 

 7 to 8 years. Is that a statement that the Forest Service would 

 agree with? 



Mr. J. Thomas. I don't think — we would not only not agree with 

 it; we would rather emphatically disagree with it. 



Mr. DooLEY. And they also have a finding 12. It says that re- 

 moval of timber from the Sequoia National Forest is done at a net 



