34 



loss to the U.S. Treasury of from $6 million to more than $8 million 

 annually over and above the amounts appropriated annually by the 

 Congress for the administration and the operation of that forest. 



Do these figures in any way represent what the Forest Service 

 figures are in terms of income? 



Mr. J. Thomas. No. 



Mr. DOOLEY. And what has been, over the past 5 years, what has 

 been the record? 



Mr. J. Thomas. In total, out of that 5-year period, we were 

 slightly deficit in 1990 and 1991. Figures indicate for the 5-year pe- 

 riod a profit or above cost of $5.1 million. 



Mr. DoOLEY. All right. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate 

 your statements. 



Mr. J. Thomas. I would like to follow up. There have been a 

 number of figures thrown around today about money, and many of 

 those numbers are the entire Forest Service budget for that forest, 

 not the amount of money that goes into the timber program. So 

 when we deal with numbers, we need to be very careful about what 

 numbers go into consideration of what is below cost or above cost. 



Mr. DoOLEY. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Brown. Thank you. 



Mr. Pombo. 



Mr. Pombo. Thank you. 



I am very concerned about how the holders to the private prop- 

 erty owners in this area would be treated. Apparently, you have 

 seen a map of this area and are very aware of the private property 

 owners that are there. 



Under the controlled burning status that would be put in place 

 by this bill, do you feel that that would be adequate protection for 

 the private property owners in the area? 



Mr. J. Thomas. I am not clear as to what the bill does with — 

 what the interpretation of that is. We know there are about 25,000 

 acres of private inholdings. We would be charged with protection 

 of property and human life. No, I have no idea of what that means. 

 It is not very clear in the legislation. 



Mr. Pombo. It is my understanding that there is a very short pe- 

 riod of time in order to conduct these controlled bums in this re- 

 gion under this scenario of not being able to use mechanical equip- 

 ment. 



My understanding from the bill is that you would be able to use 

 draft animals as a means of removing the underbrush in forests 

 from there. Would that be an economically feasible way, or would 

 it be physically possible to carry out your duties under that sce- 

 nario? 



Mr. J. Thomas. It would require a lot of horses. [Laughter.] 



I did not mean for that to be — well, I did mean for it to be funny. 

 [Laughter.] 



There is a place for horse logging, and I have some affection for 

 it. However, this is the reason — I almost sometimes think you 

 ought to have to do an environmental impact statement on legisla- 

 tion as well as our having to do them when we have to carry it out 

 in the field. 



Mr. Pombo. I would agree. 



