59 



with a complete prohibition of any kind of logging as a manage- 

 ment alternative on more than 442,000 acres, and thus justify this 

 legislation? 



Mr. Boyd. I think that you have to consider the types of science 

 that he was discussing, and par them down a bit. As he said, 

 "There's a lot we like." 



And I think some of the science that he was talking about that 

 he likes is here in the spotted owl report, saying, listen, we have 

 to reevaluate our assessment of suma-culture, and think about pre- 

 serving some of the biggest trees, and not just do a top down ap- 

 proach. 



At the same time, I understand some of his concerns, particularly 

 with respect to the fuel loading. He is saying that there are new 

 mechanical devices that can come in, and perhaps it would work 

 better than draft horses. 



And if that is the case, it makes a lot of sense to me, although 

 I'm speaking just for myself here, to amend the bill, and allow for 

 fuel loading removal that way. I think that fuel loading removal is 

 also going to create a heck of a lot of jobs for people, that are pres- 

 ently working in the timber industry. 



Mr. DOOLEY. But it's your assessment that allowing for the man- 

 agement of the Sequoia National Forest that allows for some har- 

 vest out of it which, right now I think this last year was 27 million 

 acres, is incompatible with the preservation of the sequoia redwood 

 trees? 



Mr. Boyd. I do, in part, because of the way in the Kaspaw Report 

 that they have said that given the top down nature of suma-culture 

 in the past 100 years, in order to preserve options, you shouldn't 

 be cutting the biggest trees out. 



But, also, I think that's true for economic reasons, in particular, 

 for the people coming out of your district and Mr. Lehman's dis- 

 trict, and then all the way from Greorgia or Minnesota or the other 

 areas, as well. 



Mr. DoOLEY. Well then you are assuming though that logging 

 and recreational uses are mutually exclusive. And right now, we 

 have 8.5 million visitors going to the Sequoia National Forest, 

 which is double what is going to utilize Yosemite now. And that's 

 under the management regime we have now, which I don't agree 

 with all of it. I don't agree with layer cuts. There are some opportu- 

 nities there. 



But what you're doing, and as a part of this legislation, you are 

 prescribing a management technique that says, we can have no 

 timber harvesting. Because then you are sajdng that if we step 

 away from that, it's going to accelerate recreational use. And I have 

 a hard time understanding how you can, especially even on the em- 

 pirical data, make that statement. 



Mr. Boyd. Well, Congressman Dooley, I think that you and the 

 other members of this subcommittee are going to have to look at 

 how much of the area around the growth needs to be protected in 

 order to preserve the recreational values. And if you look at what's 

 happened in the past in areas like that, one has coined the term 

 "Apocalypse Growth" where they went in and they 



Mr. Dooley. That was a tragedy. 



