30 \ 



Many times, when you hear about ecosystem management, peo- 

 ple say, "Whatever that is." I am going to tell you what it is so 

 there is no doubt. Ecosystem management is an overarching view 

 at a much larger scale than we have taken in the past. 



The underlying premise in ecosystem management is the health 

 of the system. The health of the system is defined as its ability to 

 sustain itself over centuries, not over two timber rotations but over 

 the centuries. Involved in that is the whole concept of biodiversity 

 and all of those attributes. 



But in the end, every single action has to originate from the 

 ground up, but under the overarching concept. It is not that aw- 

 fully complex in theory; it is just a different scale and a different 

 view of looking at things. 



Mr. VOLKMER. You undoubtedly do not have the vision that some 

 others that are proponents of this legislation have, and that is that 

 if we do not actually preserve the forest, these 400-and-some thou- 

 sand acres, that we are going to lose the sequoia. 



Mr. J. Thomas. Let me repeat. Congressman. I see a lot of things 

 in H.R. 2153 that we like. One is there is not any argument that 

 we should preserve the giant sequoia. There is absolutely no de- 

 bate. To me, the primary function in the debate is to freeze some- 

 thing in time with legislative prescription. 



I think we would see very quickly, when we are dealing with 

 those fire conditions inside of that 450,000 acres — ^you know, I am 

 scared to death for my managers when you turn around and say, 

 "Return this to natural conditions, whatever that is; then let natu- 

 ral fire reign to the extent that it does not threaten people or prop- 

 erty." 



Have you looked at a map of that area, how much private land 

 inholdings, all those things? Our managers are going to be right on 

 top of any fire that is in there, holding their breath that the wind 

 does not come up and it gets away. This is not a primeval forest. 

 These are not primeval times. They are very complex. 



I prefer that my managers have flexibility to deal with that con- 

 dition, both in terms of fuel reduction, which we have to do before 

 we could even think about low-intensity fire, and we need to also 

 think what natural fire was like in that system: slow, creeping, 

 burning, going on sometimes for months at a time. 



I think we really need to consider whether the people in that val- 

 ley would consider that that much smoke in the air for that long 

 a period of time is overwhelmingly conducive to their lifestyle. 



Mr. VoLKMER. I want to thank you for being here again today 

 and thank you very much for your opinion. I believe that there is 

 no question that I, too, feel that maybe the bill goes a little bit too 

 far. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Volkmer. 



Mr. Lewis. 



Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Thomas, the sequoia mediated settlement agreement was 

 signed by 19 signatories in 1990 to establish a process to identify, 

 map, and protect the sequoia groves. In your opinion, does support 

 of H.R. 2153 violate the intended purposes of the mediated settle- 

 ment agreement? 



