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pie come up to a giant sequoia and see a bum scar and say, "Oh, 

 now awful. They were almost destroyed." I say, "No. Fire is re- 

 newal, and that makes sure that the giant sequoias continue, be- 

 cause they have evolved over time to protect themselves." 



The greatest threat to the giant sequoia is the stupidity of man 

 and the kind of legislation that you have in front of you. 



Mr. Rose. Are there any other comments or questions? 



Mr. Farr. 



Mr. Farr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I really have a question to the panel but particularly to Con- 

 gressman Lehman. You stated that the giant sequoias are pro- 

 tected. This is in the national forests, that we will not cut any 

 giant sequoias? 



Mr. Lehman. Well, there is a proclamation of President Bush 

 dated July 14, 1992. 



Mr. Farr. So what trees are we talking about cutting under the 

 agreement plan? 



Mr. Lehman. The agreement plan, as Mr. Thomas accurately ex- 

 plained it, set up an area around those trees and said you could 

 not do anything within 500 feet of them. In other words, it was 

 agreed not only that you just cannot cut the trees, but there would 

 be a zone of 500 feet in the vicinity of trees in which nothing could 

 take place. 



Mr. Farr. So you can cut giant sequoia redwoods; you just can- 

 not cut the ones that have been identified in 



Mr. Lehman. No, you cannot cut any of them, no. 



Mr. Farr. Well, then, what species are we cutting? 



Mr. Lehman. We are not cutting giant sequoias today. We are 

 cutting ponderosa, white pine, lodgepoles. 



Mr. Thomas of California. But let me add that there is going to 

 be a requirement based upon the California spotted owl concern 

 that no tree with a trunk diameter greater than 30 inches is going 

 to be cut. So not only do you have the sequoias protected, but you 

 have large trees that are eventually going to fall over and die of 

 old age that are going to be protected, and that you have layer 

 upon layer of protection in this area. 



Mr. Farr. Well, the reason we have all that is because there has 

 been quite a lot of abuse, and it has been abuse by Federal regu- 

 lators on Federal lands. I think what we are facing here, and I rep- 

 resent an area, like you, that is very sensitive, the Big Sur Coast, 

 and there is always concern by the people who live in those areas 

 that they sort of want a hands-off attitude by Government. 



But we are in a State of 3 1 million people, I think, shifting from 

 a historical policy of using public lands for resource management, 

 grazing, mining, cutting, to recreation. 



Mr. Lehman. Mr. Farr, let's get to the bone here. We have in 

 California millions of acres of wilderness passed in the Wilderness 

 Act. In my district alone, we have three national parks set up. At 

 the same time, we have the spotted owl controversy. We have tre- 

 mendous cutbacks in the logging. You know, they used to cut 120 

 million, 140 million board feet on the Sierra National Forest; they 

 are now down to less than 50 million board feet. 



Given the huge decisions that we have to make on the spotted 

 owl, on the fur-bearing animals, on all the other ESA things, is this 



