14 



that they be protected. The issue is whether or not we are going 

 to set aside 442,000 acres and take all the uses that are on that 

 property and say you are not going to be able to do that. I just do 

 not think that is a good way to go about managing the property. 



Mr. VOLKMER. No further questions. 



Mr. Rose. Thank you. 



Can I ask you two one question, and that is, tell me about the 

 negotiated settlement. Was it ever fully consummated? Mr. Thomas 

 seemed to imply that people walked away from the table. 



Mr. Lehman. Well, let me explain my version of what happened 

 as I know it. There were environmental groups — and maybe they 

 can speak to this later — who were at the table. Seventeen groups 

 in total, all but three — my number may be wrong, and it may be 

 17 and 14 signed, but I think it is 20 — and that is a heck of a con- 

 sensus when you get that many different groups to agree, because 

 they all have strong opinions here. 



But they agreed, the Forest Service agreed, and the timber inter- 

 ests, if you will, agreed. Then the three environmental 



Mr. Rose. Agreed to a plan? 



Mr. Lehman. Yes. They signed it. This is a document. 



Now, the other three that did not sign went out and sued. And 

 so from my point of view, what do we need, unanimity all the time? 

 When we have that kind of majority, we have to go forward. We 

 have to have some certainty here. 



Mr. Rose. What was the result of the suit? 



Mr. Lehman. The forest supervisor may know what the latest is 

 here. 



[Pause.] 



Mr. Lehman. I am informed that there have been several law- 

 suits. I am not familiar with all of them, and they are 50-50 in 

 who wins and who loses. 



Mr. Thomas of California. Mr. Chairman, I think the point that 

 Rick made needs to be underscored. That is that it was not that 

 all of the environmentalists walked out on the settlement; it \vas 

 that a minority of the minority did not get, once again, their vision 

 completely locked in. 



There are responsible environmentalists who fully believe that 

 the plan completely protects the sequoias, and they agreed that the 

 plan was a good one. 



I am informed by the people who manage the forests — I am 

 sorry. Rick— that I have 75 percent and you have 25 percent. I 

 think you should understand that he has 75 percent and 25 per- 

 cent, and I have 25 percent and 75 percent, and I will tell you why 

 that is the way you should look at it. 



I personally resent the tone of people who say they are the ones 

 who are here to protect our environment and these trees. Rick and 

 I represent people who live and daily relate to this natural environ- 

 ment. I have walked the site lines in Monache Meadows for the 

 wilderness bill. I represent those areas. Rick and I are very proud 

 of those areas. It is interesting that people who have destroyed 

 their areas are now concerned about saving these, and we should 

 join together to make sure that we do. 



But nature is competition. Competition breeds winners. The 

 giant sequoias are winners in terms of competition. I have had peo- 



