13 



Mr. Lehman. My guess is probably about 70 or 75 percent of it, 

 and Bill has probably 25 percent of it. 



Mr. Thomas of California. I have the former. [Laughter.l 



Mr. VOLKMER. And as I understand it, you have spent consider- 

 able time studying this whole situation? 



Mr. Lehman. Yes, and I am very familiar with the area. I am 

 a pretty avid outdoorsman myself, and like I said, I have supported 

 setting aside a lot of area. 



The other problem here, Mr. Thomas alluded to this. About 2 or 

 3 years ago, there was a big meeting of everyone involved on this 

 issue, and they put together what is called a mediated settlement. 

 That was an agreement between the timber interests, the Forest 

 Service, and about 17 interested groups. 



After months of really tough negotiating, they came up with a 

 proposal that they all signed off on for management of the forests. 

 It was controversial. People had a give-and-take on all sides, but 

 it was, I think, a landmark agreement. 



I think what needs to be done is to enforce that agreement. If 

 there are problems with the way it is being managed, then it ought 

 to be dealt with in that context. But I think, for me, I kind of feel 

 that there is kind of a betrayal here to go around through the back 

 door now and say, well, we have the mediated settlement, but now 

 we want to support a bill that will take all that property and just 

 totally obviate the agreement that everybody sat down and made. 

 I don't know how we can reach agreements and consensus in that 

 kind of atmosphere. 



I firmly believe the only way we can manage our natural re- 

 sources, not just our timber but probably everything today, is by 

 reaching consensus among the different parties. Otherwise, they 

 just sue each other forever, which is the situation that we are in 

 here. 



I would like to go back to that settlement, which I think was a 

 good one. If people have problems with the way it is being imple- 

 mented, they should bring them out. That can be handled. 



But now to go and say we are going to take all this property, 

 442,000 acres, virtually the entire remaining land base, and create 

 a new thing called a preserve, which is a de facto wilderness with- 

 out calling it a wilderness, and say everything is off limits in there 

 is simply not right. 



Mr. Volkmer. The sequoia is a long-living tree? 



Mr. Lehman. They are supposedly the oldest living things, a cou- 

 ple thousand years old. 



Mr. Volkmer. And they are a very hardy tree? 



Mr. Lehman. They are a very hardy tree, but I think past man- 

 agement practices, most of which if not all of which, I think, have 

 been corrected, have posed some problems. 



We cut a lot of trees at the beginning of this century, a very ter- 

 rible occurrence. You cannot do that an3rmore. But these trees are 

 already protected by order of President Bush. They are already pro- 

 tected by order of the U.S. Forest Service. You cannot cut them. 

 And they are further protected by that mediated settlement agree- 

 ment in the region. 



The issue here is not protecting these trees. We are going to pro- 

 tect these trees. I will be the first person to stand up and demand 



