66 



tant biotic interactions, but often have effects much wider than this 

 narrow area of a 500 foot or 1,000 foot boundary around the groves. 



Also, in terms of the living and dead biomass bark, this particu- 

 lar component of the forests themselves, these are much more com- 

 plex in terms of other organisms, so biodiversity becomes very im- 

 portant. And these systems can not operate as natural systems 

 without a microbiology in the soil that fixes nitrogen and decom- 

 poses litter. It can't operate without animals as seed dispersers, as 

 regulators of other properties. 



We have to have a proper appreciation of the importance of 

 biodiversity. We can't manage these zones as museum preserves for 

 giant sequoias alone. And no management is very bad management 

 in this area. 



Part of what I want to really mention then is — ^this is kind of a 

 complex drawing here — but the kinds of environmental factors that 

 occur affect dramatically what will happen with the future of giant 

 sequoias. And the kind of factors that I want to stress in here are 

 that there is a big difference between no fires, light fires, and mod- 

 erate and intense fires, in terms of the environmental factors and 

 interactions that lead to sequoias' success in reproducing. 



Moderate and intense fires, which we are a bit afraid of because 

 of urban areas, which certainly are a valid consideration, are very 

 important for these groves in the long run. We know now from his- 

 torical studies that it is these intense fires from which most of the 

 reproduction occurs. 



On a final Vu-Graph here, if we talk about mixed conifer forests 

 then, I also want to keep in mind that these are very dynamic sys- 

 tems in space and time. 



We think about these as being a very stable system on the west 

 side of the Sierra Nevada. But 8,000 years ago, now we know from 

 the pollen record that sage brush and ponderosa pine dominated 

 the west side of the Sierras. 



And against conventional wisdom, the sequoias are becoming 

 more and more restricted. We have the largest area of giant se- 

 quoias today, than we've historically or in geological history for the 

 last 8,000 years. But since the warmer period following the last 

 glacier, sequoias have expanded their range. They are in areas 

 where they were not before. 



I think an appropriate scientific management of the grove, in the 

 long run, for the preservation of the species, requires us to consider 

 not just the current geographical boundaries, but a much broader 

 concept of the mixed conifer/sequoia ecosystem, in which these spe- 

 cies might well occur, not in the next decade, but in the next cen- 

 tury or future centuries. 



TTiank you very much. 



[The prepared statement of Mr. Rundel appears at the conclusion 

 of the hearing.] 



Mr. CONDIT. I don't want to push anyone, but we have a vote 

 going on. Dr. Kondolf, how many minutes will your opening state- 

 ment take? 



Mr. Kondolf. About 5 minutes. 



Mr. CONDIT. Why don't you do your opening statement. After 

 your opening statement, we will recess for approximately 5 to 10 

 minutes, and then we'll pick up from that. 



