72 



[The prepared statement of Mr. Gasser appears at the conclusion 

 of the hearing.] 



Mr. Brown. Thank you very much, Mr. Gasser. 



Did all of the other members of the panel get a change to speak? 



Mr. Christenson. More or less. I submitted my statement. I 

 would be willing to answer any questions. 



Mr. Brown. All right. 



Mr. Christenson. I guess the main point is that I have seen a 

 lot of damage, especially to streams, throughout the sequoia forests 

 and Sierra forest as well. 



The other point is that in some of my efforts to work with Forest 

 Service people, I have run into resistance to fish and wildlife pro- 

 tection. I have respect for them, but sometimes their administra- 

 tion, and so on, causes some conflicts between their views and 

 mine. 



Mr. Brown. Let me say, as the author of the bill, that we cer- 

 tainly did not assume that we had the wisdom to prescribe a forest 

 management for the sequoias or for either of the national forests 

 up there. 



What we thought we were doing was first to build on the medi- 

 ated agreement, and require that that be continued until a plan 

 could be developed on a permanent basis, and that that plan be de- 

 veloped upon the advice and recommendations of the Scientific Ad- 

 visory Committee. 



Now, am I inherently off-base in assuming that that is the prop- 

 er way to go about getting the proper management of the forest? 

 Any of you can respond to that. Disregard the fact that it does 

 make some other changes, like phasing out grazing after 10 years, 

 which is not that big a deal, and we can negotiate that, if it is nec- 

 essary to do so. 



There are a few prescriptive things like that. But as far as the 

 regeneration of the forest itself, we build upon the best that we 

 know. Now, where do I go wrong here? 



Mr. Gasser. I think it depends on the scientists you are going 

 to speak to. As Dr. Rundel pointed out, it is a very djniamic set of 

 ecosystems, and it changes from one spot to another. So we need 

 on-the-site managers who can make decisions. 



And I have a problem with a group, sitting in a room, deciding 

 the future of a piece of land, because we have to be studying what 

 the land is telling us. 



Mr. Christenson. Another comment is, if you do propose to 

 make changes in a management or what you are going to do to an 

 ecosystem, I think it is much better to consider all aspects of it be- 

 fore you start, rather than proposing something, and then finding 

 out what mistakes you made. We don't have room for many more 

 mistakes. 



Mr. Brown. I'm glad to see that you recognize we have been 

 making some mistakes. 



Mr. Rundel. I think the only point to consider is that the sci- 

 entific community would be the first to agree, we don't have all the 

 answers yet. But we've learned a tremendous new amount in the 

 last few decades. But we are continuing to expand. 



And I think contrary to some of the comments made earlier 

 today, I think having a scientific panel with some accountability in- 



