79 



Are there any further questions? 



[No response.] 



Mr. Brown. If not, we can excuse this panel, which is appro- 

 priate, since we are called away to a vote. 



Can someone inform me as to whether we have additional wit- 

 nesses to be called? We have one more panel? Then may I encour- 

 age the members to return if they possibly can, so that we can com- 

 plete the additional panel. 



[Recess taken.] 



Mr. Brown. The meeting will resume its sitting. First of all, I 

 think I should, on behalf of the chairman, express our collective 

 apologies to this panel for their long and patient wait to enter their 

 contribution to the record here. I do apologize to you. 



To some degree, these delays are uncontrollable, depending upon 

 votes in the House and other situations. We are just not as efficient 

 as we ought to be, and we urge you to forgive us for our failings. 



I also want to express my thanks to my other two colleagues who 

 enabled us to continue with a bipartisan hearing. In fact, I will 

 make this additional comment that I will have to leave shortly. 



I'm going to ask Mr. Dooley to take over, who has exactly the op- 

 posite viewpoint as I do on this bill, so that you will understand 

 that we try to be fair and unbiased as we complete the best pos- 

 sible record to enable all of the members to decide what is the best 

 way to go on this. 



Can we vote now? [Laughter.] 



Well, we may consider that. 



The next panel is panel 4. Mr. Jeff Lilley, Mr. Frank Schlitz, Mr. 

 Larry Duysen and Mr. Jack Shannon, California Cattlemen. 



Mr. Shannon. Primarily, a permittee on the affected area. 



Mr. Brown. Did I ever tell you that my brother-in-law used to 

 be the president of the California Cattlemen? 



Mr. Shannon. No. Who is that? 



Mr. Brown. Joe Idaho, down in Imperial County. 



Mr. Shannon. Yes. 



Mr. Brown. That was before he retired, of course. 



Mr. Shannon. That's not allowed, before my time. [Laughter.] 



Mr. Brown. All right. We will proceed in the order in which I 

 called your names. iQain, I thank you for your patience. You may 

 be assured that your fuU statement will appear in the record, and 

 that your contribution will be fairly scrutinized by all the members 

 of the committee. 



Cio ahead. 



STATEMENT OF JEFF LILLEY ON BEHALF OF HUME LAKE 



CHRISTIAN CAMPS 



Mr. Lilley. Thank you, Mr. Brown. I appreciate the opportunity 

 to speak today. 



I represent Hume Lake Christian Camps. It is one of the largest 

 youth camps in America. It works with kids, predominantly. It 

 works with a lot of other groups, in addition to that, from family 

 camps to couples, senior citizens, a lot of different groups. 



I am also here on behalf of a lot of smaller camps who could not 

 necessarily afford to come back — Pyles Boys Camp, Bear Skin 

 Meadow Diabetic Camp, Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts of America — a lot 



