89 



year. It looks like probably 26 million is a more realistic number. 

 I accept that as part of the ongoing process here. 



But on the other hand, I would expect that the mediated agree- 

 ment, that language would still go forward as far as the protections 

 that were afforded for the giant sequoias for the riparian areas and 

 some of those issues. 



Mr. DOOLEY. In terms of your experience with this process, and 

 your relationship with other groups that are involved in a similar 

 process, if you replaced — let's say that this legislation doesn't move 

 forward. Is there going to be a need, really, to try to reengage the 

 parties, again, to address some of the changing issues, or how 

 would you see moving forward from this date on? 



Mr. DUYSEN. Well, that option is always available, and that is 

 one of the terms of the agreement. At this point, the mediation 

 group meets once a year for an annual meeting, the mechanism is 

 in place to go ahead and do that. 



That is a question that is a little bit hard to answer, in the fact 

 that if any of the parties feel like they need to address something, 

 that is certainly available and can proceed. 



Mr. DooLEY. There has been, obviously, some criticism, and cer- 

 tainly the photos create a very graphic depiction that some of the 

 clearcutting is perhaps not a management technique that may be 

 something, for whatever reasons, that public policy is willing to ac- 

 cept. 



From an industry perspective, is it possible to move forward in 

 a selective management regime that can accommodate CASPO, 

 that can accommodate the issues of the mediated settlement agree- 

 ment, in terms of level of protections and repairing protections, 

 that still can allow for — well, obviously, it will have a sustainable 

 yield — ^but an economic yield that can keep the existing timber in- 

 dustry in business, keep it economically viable? 



Mr. DuYSEN. You know, as far as our sawmill goes, as you well 

 know, there have been many mill closures, up and down the State 

 of California; three alone in the last 2 weeks. 



But as far as our particular operation on the Sequoia National 

 Forest, I truly believe that ecosystem management is the tool for 

 the future, and that if it can be applied across the nonwildemess 

 land base, that it cannot only provide a sufficient amount of timber 

 for our sawmill, but also can greatly improve the forest health. 



I think that to go ahead and call it a preserve or any other num- 

 ber of names where you simply lock it up and forget it, is not really 

 the best way to go in this case. 



Mr. DoOLEY. At this time, I will recognize Mr. Pombo for ques- 

 tions. 



Mr. Pombo. Mr. Shannon, you are representing the grazing in- 

 terests in the area. Approximately how many acres are currently 

 under permit for grazing that would be included in the 440-some 

 thousand? 



Mr. Shannon. Probably about 50,000 acres that are not suitable 

 for grazing, or it is excluded because of home sites. 



Mr. Pombo. So all but 50,000 acres of it is suitable for grazing? 



Mr. Shannon. Yes, something like that. That is one number I 

 have not looked at. But there is one band of heavy brush. There 

 is grazing below it and there is grazing above it. 



