155 



Mr. Pelly. Well, I think some reference was made by Dr. Talbot to 

 the economic resource. It is something more than that. When you talk 

 about the salmon you are talking about the natives and their livelihood 

 and their source of food and the danger of starvation. 



We have to have, it seems to mej some balance to this program and 

 it must be on some scientific basis regulated in order to keep that 

 balance that we are all hoping to restore in nature. 



Dr. LiNDUSBLA.. The inroads of man on habitat and on the environ- 

 ment generally have been such that we are much too far down the road 

 to turn back and allow nature to regulate as it will. 



Obviously through a great many developments we have impaired or 

 at least altered the environment so it is hard telling what we would 

 come up with if we allowed nature to establish balances in this day 

 and age. 



Mr. Pelly. As you so well know, the salmon are a pretty good exam- 

 ple of where you can have too many of a species. 



The salmon return to a river to reproduce and if there are too many 

 fish they dig up their own eggs and as a result there is a tremendous 

 loss rather than a growth in the number of the salmon stocks each year. 



Well, I think you have added a great deal to my thinking in this 

 matter. 



I know we are greatly concerned with coming up with some legisla- 

 tion, but I think it will have to be on the basis of an object, not neces- 

 sarily economic, but the human values that are involved in keeping the 

 balanced program and the only way I can see it is with some flexibility. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Mr. Anderson ? 



Mr. Anderson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Dr. Linduska, I notice in your comments on page 5 that you antici- 

 pate the Reorganization Plan No. 4 that the Department of Natural 

 Resources will be coming into being shortly. 



Is that legislation moving reasonably well in this Congress? 



Dr. Linduska. Mr. Anderson, yes, it is my understanding that it is 

 under serious consideration and discussions are going on. 



Mr. Anderson. If it is not successful, do you feel H.R. 10420 as it 

 is presently written prior to this suggested amendment is satisfactory 

 to cover that situation or are there problems ? 



Dr. Linduska. I would have to orient that in space of time depend- 

 ing on how long we are talking about. 



I would say if it is something unsure that it is likely not to occur 

 for a good many years, why certainly some sort of stopgap legislation 

 would be highly desirable. 



If it is something relatively imminent, a year or 18 months, we could 

 live with the present circumstances until it comes about. 



Mr. Anderson. I have a question regarding sea otters. I am con- 

 cerned and I am somewhat knowledgeable about them in California. 

 We had a witness before us this last we^k that was testifying about the 

 ])roblems confronting sea otters as a result of pollution and accidents 

 from boating and thmgs like that in that area. 



Can you give us a capsule of what the problem and the situation is 

 confronting the sea otters, not just in California, but wherever they 

 may be? 



