183 



Mr. Pelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. McKernan, a few days ago at these hearings one witness repre- 

 senting a well-known organization indicated opposition to the fur 

 seal treaty under which the fur seals of the Pribilof Islands are 



managed. 



They went on to say that they would like to see this treaty lapse 

 and would rather have no treaty than to have the same treaty that 

 we have. Of course, they wanted a new treaty to take its place. 



I expressed some concern as to the vacuum that would be created 

 without any treaty that covered the control of pelagic sealing in par- 

 ticular because I felt that, possibly, certain nations would start killing 

 the seal indiscriminately off of the Pribilof Islands as they migrate. 



Would you comment as to what might be your opinion as to the 

 danger to the seal herd if there was no treaty at all ? 



Mr. McKernan. I would agree with you, Mr. Pelly, I would have 

 the same concern if there was not an effective treaty in being. 



The fur seal treaty in my judgment has been the most successful 

 of any of the international conservation agreements, barring none, 

 and it has been looked at by other nations in the world as an example 

 of a successful conservation treaty. 



I can see no reason whatsoever for us withdrawing from such a 

 successful treaty. 



It was started about 1911, and about this time according to the 

 best estimates, which were not very good, the fur seal herd had been 

 depleted to an alarming degree by pelagic sealing; that is, offshore 

 sealing where a great many of the animals are lost, of course. 



I think there have been some estimates, as many as one-third sink, 

 and so are not recovered, with pelagic sealing. 



By the way, there have been studies on this in subsequent years to 

 indicate there is in fact a very substantial loss of females with young 

 in them that are lost also. 



The fur seal treaty not only provides for cooperative studies be- 

 tween the four member nations, the U.S.S.R., Japan, Canada, and the 

 United States, but it also provides for land sealing, for harvesting 

 the seals, the available surplus, on land. In this way, none are lost. 



Of course, in addition to this, contrary to a good deal of information 

 that I see in the press, the harvest is never of infants, of the pups. 

 That does not occur with Pribilof fur seals, and to the best of my 

 knowledge never has. 



I have watched and observed the fur seal harvest for many years 

 myself. They always take the young bachelors, 3- or 4-year-old 

 bachelors that actually bunch up some distance from the herd itself 

 and from the large rookeries, and these are driven inland a consider- 

 able distance away from the herd, and there they are killed and 

 skinned. 



There are surplus males because the animals are polygamous and 

 one large bull fur seal has 10 or more females in its harem. 



At any rate, without the protection of the fur seal convention it 

 seems to me that nations such as Japan and Canada or the Soviet 

 Union, or perhaps other nations for that matter, could not be pre- 

 vented from pelagic sealing, and this would be a very destructive 

 and damaging thing, indeed. 



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