286 



Dr. Harry. That is the figure we are using now, about 400,000 plus 



or minus 50,000. 4.1. kaa nnn 



Mr. Potter. Considering that you have not had more than 500,000 

 ])ups since 1960, and I am wondering about that, and that the number 

 of pups born in 1970 (the most recent year for which we have figures) 

 is 306,000, it looks as though you indulged in a little overkill. 



Mr. DiNGFXL. I would like to just give you a litle bit of comparison. 

 This is kind of hard, because I do not have this in graphic form, but 

 let us try and get this down here. 



Let us take the hist year. You had 438,000 in 1961. That is under our 

 optimum population, but you killed 43,849 females that year. 



Now, in the next year you had 362,000, in 1962, and I note in 1962 you 

 killed 43,760 females. 



Now, how do you claim this is good management ? 



Let us come back here just a little bit to 1963. 



In 1963, you had 343,000 pups; and in 1963, 1 note you killed 43,952. 



Now, going over to 1964, you had 370,000 pups born, and m that 

 year you killed 16,000 females. 



Now, you were well under your optimum population levels, accord- 

 ing to your figures. 



In 1965, you bred 370.000. and you dropi:>ed the number of females 

 killed to 10,000, even though you had an increase in the number of 

 population, although they were not up to the optimum levels. 



Now, I am finding myself hard put to understand why this number 

 of female hides ought to be rotted and fed to fish under these circum- 



In 1966, you had 347,000 pups, and you only killed 391 females. 



Now, that apparent wisdom had begun to prevail downtown, but 

 then I note here in 1967 you do not have figures on the total number 

 of pups, but you killed 10,000 females. 



Here, you are killing 10,000 females without any figures on the birth. 



The same thing was true in 1968. You killed 13,000. Apparently, 

 some kind of wisdom dictated that you ought to kill 3,000 more, even 

 though you did not know the number of pups born. 



Then 'in 1969 you had 304,000, and you did not kill but 230 females. 



In 1970, you had 306,000 pups bom, and you killed 121 females. 



How do you justify this against the optimum which is 500,000 

 pups? 



In some years you are killing the females without giving us a knowl- 

 edge of pups born, and in some instances you are doing it on a basis 

 of figures on the magnitude of 2 to 20, and then you are doing it 

 without the utilization of the female hides. 



I need some justification for this as a good conservation practice, 

 and I am waiting to hear it. 



Dr. Harry. Again, I think with regard to the hides, most of these 

 were used after the early period. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Let us assume for the sake of the argument a certain 

 number of these were used. 



According to your own good management practices and your own 

 reports here, you are telling us that you are killing females when 

 you had not yet achieved your optimum population number. 



Dr. Harry. During the period from 1956 through 1963, the objec- 

 tive was to reduce the stock of fur seals, and during this period the 



