287 



number of pups did come down, and probably at the end of that 

 period was close to, or perhaps a little below, the optimum number; 

 probably a little bit below. 



On the optimum number it seems to me we estimate the optimum 

 at 400,000 plus or minus 50,000. 



We were a little below that, and that is true. Then in 1964 the 

 decision was made to attempt to hold the stock at that population 

 because we needed information on how the herd responded at that 

 population level. 



Mr. DiNGELL. You mentioned that you have come to a lower figure 

 in 1969, and you said the optimum population of pups was 500,000. 

 Have you been going up and down on that fi^re ? 



Dr. Harry. The l)est figure we have now is about 400,000. I am not 

 sure where the 500,000 came in. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Your figure is 500,000 here in the year 1969. Have 

 you gone down since then ? 



Maybe I ought to ask you to send to us the optimum population 

 level, in the opinion of your agency. ISIaybe that has been going up 

 and down also. 



Dr. Harry. There have been some changes. As we get additional 

 information, of course, these things do change. Our best estimate is 

 about 400,000. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Just a minute. You said, in 1969, 500,000. TVhen did 

 you change that to 400,000 ? 



Dr. Harry. I do not know where the 500,000 came from. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I do not know either. Maybe you folks down there 

 would do well to read your own reports. 



This comes from the annual report of sealing operations, 1969, 

 Pribilof Islands, Alaska, prepared by the staff of the marine mam- 

 mal resource program, dated December 31, 1969. 



This is stamped administrative use only. I hope that does not classi- 

 fy it so you do not get the wisdom of your staif. 



Dr. Harry. Well, I cannot reply to that. Our best estimate, based 

 on the best data that we have now is 400,000. It was probably a typo- 

 graphical error. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I will let that pass for the moment, even when you 

 take plus or minus 50,000, by the way I must tell you plus or minus 

 50,000 is sloppy administration. 



Dr. Harry. With an animal population it is difficult to get precise 

 figures, for whales, fur seals, or almost anj^hing. 



Mr. DiNGELL. These are not whales, and they are seals, and you are 

 counting them on the ground. 



Dr. Harry. If we could count them we would have precise numbers, 

 but there are so many of them that we have to estimate it. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Interior count ducks down to a few thousand, and they 

 have the whole of North America. 



All you have to do is chase these things around the Pribilofs and 

 count them. 



Mr. Pollock. Mr. Chairman, these are Interior's figures we are talk- 

 ing about. 



Mr. DiNGELL. NO A A has been in existence 11 months. 



Dr. Harry. We believe that the number of pups now is below the 

 optimum and, of course, the harvest of the females was stopped in 

 1968. 



