354 



Am I right in the way this figure has been developed? 



Mr. Felando. Yes ; from what I understand. We have allowed Gov- 

 ernment observers to go aboard our vessels and to take a count. 



However, for instance there was only one observation on one vessel 

 in 1968, one observation on one vessel in 1969, and I think four obser- 

 vations in 1971, so they have a limited sample. On the basis of that 

 count and what they tried to figure out was what percentage of tuna 

 was caught with ^.orpoise and then on the basis of that, they would 

 multiply what they estimated to be the number of porpoise killed per 

 set or per ton with what they figured the fishermen would catch over 

 a year on porpoise schools. 



'We have not done anything like that. We have not come up with the 

 different system or different count, so it is hard to say. 



The only thing that we can say is that we know it is so muc^i vari- 

 ation, so many different circumstances and each set is a different 

 experience, that we really question how good these figures are. 



That is all I can say to this, Congressman. I wish we could come up 

 with an estimate. We have not done it. 



However, we are going to work out the program with the Govern- 

 ment and we hope to get better figures. 



This is a question of time and maybe we can zero in on the thing. 



Mr. Anderson. When most of us think of the porpoise, we think 

 of the ones we see on the TV, and they are fairly large. 



Wlien we are talking about 200,000 or 250,000 porpoise being caught 

 in these nets, and they tell us they get caught by the nose in the 4-inch 

 net, how big are these porpoise? Are they big or are they small ones? 



Mr. Medina. These are large porpoise. We catch a spinner porpoise 

 and the spotter porpoise. Sometimes we see small ones mixed in, but 

 very seldom and I would say they are 5 to 6 feet long. 



Mr. Anderson. These are trapped because they get caught in the 4- 

 inch net? 



Mr. Medina. Yes. When we back down, this is the first thing that 

 really saves the porpoise, when we back down we may have 1,500 or 

 2,000 porpoise. This is a large school. Sometimes we may make a set 

 on 40 or 50 porpoise and have no trouble getting them out. 



When we back down out of that 1,500 porpoise, maybe 40 or 50 will 

 get tangled in the net. The rest of them slide out over the top of the 

 net and get out alive. 



This is the problem we have with the 40 or 50 porpoise and we get in 

 and save them, the ones that are tangled up. 



With this new webbing and smaller net, and we are not having the 

 problem, these porpoises are sliding right out of the net and getting 

 out alive. 



Mr. Felando. Mr. Anderson, I might say this section of the net is 

 around 700 feet long and 40 feet deep. This is the small mesh. This 

 appears to be like a sliding platform. They do not get their noses 

 caught. They have very sharp teeth and they do not get caught any 

 more and do not panic. 



Like I say, the pictures will speak a 1,000 words and I am hopeful 

 when we have the film that this might answer a lot of the questions 

 that you have in your mind. 



