388 



Sometimes, ironically enough, you will find a longer life expectancy 

 for a ranging animal in captivity, if you can call what is left of that 

 animal an animal because he does not have to fight for his food and 

 mate and so forth. 



Mr. Potter. If they cannot keep an animal alive for 5 years under 

 "optimal'' controlled conditions, and the animal will live in the wild 

 for 25 years, that indicates something is wrong. 



Mr. HoRSTMAN. Yes, certain segments of my testimony, if you are 

 sufficiently interested, will point out some frightening specific ex- 

 amples of the loss of these animals in captivity. 



It is interesting to note and I do not know whether this has been 

 brought out by any of the population dyna mists, but when you are 

 talking in terms of marine animals, and talk in terms of 200 or 300 

 individuals captures you must realize that it is quite possible that 

 represents the total birth production of 4,000 to 5,000 animals. 



It is also significant to note that we do not know how many dolphin 

 we have in Florida. 



I do not know how many porpoises are out there. I do not know if 

 the tuna industry really knows how many are getting caught in their 

 nets. 



We have to have some period of time to get this data. 



We do not have it and do not know the effect on a herd or pod of 

 marine mammals when we do kill one or two of their members. 



You may not be able to apply the principles of wildlife management 

 as it relates to a terrestrial herd to an ocean ranging herd. 



We do not know socially or behaviorally enough to say that what 

 works for a herd of buffalo will work for a herd of whales. 



Mr. Anderson. Were there any exceptions to the moratorium ? 



Mr. Horstjian. Any exceptions ? 



Mr. Anderson. Your idea of a moratorium. 



For example, I recently visited Barrow, Alaska, where there are 

 some 2,400 Eskimos who say they depend upon the walrus harvest. 



Wlien you talk about a moratorium were you talking about a mora- 

 torium across the board or just a specific industry ? 



Mr. HoRSTMAN. I was, Mr. Anderson, talking to it across the board, 

 and I approached it from that angle. 



Now, when we get into the subject of aboriginal hunting and so 

 forth, and use traditional methods of hunting, I suppose we would 

 have to have some respect for the culture that we are entering. 



I do not think that the snowmobile, airplane, and outboard motor- 

 boats, however, are part of that traditional culture. 



Mr. Anderson. Thank you. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Mr. Horstman, you have given us most helpful testi- 

 mony aJid we certainly thank you. 



Mr. Rountree? 



Mr. Rountree. I have just one question. If you could perhaps pro- 

 vide a statement for the record, it would be sufficient. 



I am interested in whether or not in your knowledge there are any 

 existing laws on a Federal level which will seek to regulate the care 

 and condition of ocean mammals in a captive state. 



Then, as a corollary to that I am sure there are a number of State 

 laws which regulate habitat conditions. 



