409 



^Ir. Pelly. AVell, we are having now some legislation that comes 

 up next Monday to try to protect the North Atlantic salmon where 

 all nations except three have supported a ban on taking fish on the 

 high seas by nets and yet, any nation that does not agree to go along 

 can go ahead and do it and Denmark is depleting the stocks of fish. 



We are coming up with a bill which we think might be a solution 

 and you might watch for it. It is a broader bill than just North At- 

 lantic salmon. 



This bill provides that, where a nation does not conform to an in- 

 ternational agreement, the President could, in his discretion, cut off 

 the imports of fish products from the nation in order to bring pressure. 



In the meantime, it is in conformity with the General Agreement 

 on Tariffs and Trade. That is permitted, I understand. 



"Well, one more quick question that needs an explanation. On page 

 3 also, you say obviously the diversity of uses and the diversity of 

 species make management on a species-by-species, stock-by-stock basis 

 mandatory. 



I take it you mean stock-by-stock. Is that something different than 

 species-by-species ? 



Dr. Ray. Very definitely, animals exist in populations and stock is 

 the word for population. 



Mr. Pelly. Right. A layman sometimes needs a little help. 



Dr. Ray. I would rather call them populations, too. Stock smacks 

 of other things. 



Mr. Pelly. One final question. 



On page 6 tliere seems to be a little contradiction. You say the Com- 

 mission will obviously have access to proprietary information which 

 should not be a matter of public scrutiny, and you go on to say this 

 work must be highly visible. 



I do not quite know why the public should be deprived of the in- 

 formation that is developed. 



Dr. Ray. Well, I have wrestled with this myself and I think all of 

 us have. 



For instance, in some of the work I have done in East Africa on 

 conservation or with Eskimos, if you are going to be successful, you 

 are going to enter into a rather personal relationship with a person 

 and he will give the information that he says is confidential. He may 

 write you a letter about this when you go home. 



I worry very much about having a open file of my mail. I do not 

 want everybody to know who signs "Love" at the end of my letters, you 

 know. It is just one of those things. 



On the other hand, the conclusions I may reach for instance, must 

 be open for public scrutiny as are the conclusions of every university 

 professor. 



I think university professors are used to this sort of thing. They 

 have to put before their peers ever>i:hing they find out. 



I agree it is a very difficult conflict to solve. Just where you do draw 

 the line on proprietary information ? 



Mr. Pelly. The Pentagon papers would be an example. 



Dr. Ray. I think it is a very hairy example. The oil company geolo- 

 gists is another one that Mr. Schevill has just mentioned to me. 



The tuna fleet is another one and if you are going to get chummy 

 with the tuna fisherman he may tell you things, depending on how 



