422 

 wish to have testify later that could direct their attention to this 



Mr. Lennon. I am sure that will be so, but I would like to have, 

 since you have raised these specific comments on the bill, I would like 

 to have your views in legislative form. 



Dr. Ray. Delighted to give them. 



Mr. Lennon. We return to the first specific comment. 



Would you furnish for the committee any specific language that 

 you think would properly and effectively implement your suggestions 



there? 



Would this be covered by this bill, sir? 



Dr. NoRRis. At the moment there is an exception listed m the bill 

 concerning commercial fisheries which take animals incident to their 

 operations. 



In our notion there should be no exceptions to the permit system. 



Mr. Lennon. You state the problem is on the way to the solution 

 but are not yet backed up by specific facts, and you say that industry 

 collaboration with NOAA must be visibly increased, and this problem 



must be solved. • i • 



Can it be done by legislative action, or can we provide a legislative 

 vehicle on which the action may be done to bnng into being what 

 you have suggested in your first specific comment ? 



Dr. NoRRis. My feeling is that by the institutions of a merit system 

 in which everyone who is conceimed with taking mammals is required 

 to go through the review procedure and constant surveillance of a per- 

 mit. That in itself is going to be a very good first step. 



The second thing is that we very greatly need an increased level of 

 research on this particular problem ; the tuna- porpoise problem. 



Mr. Lennon. Now, your second comment, we assume that one task 

 for the committee, would be to aid in the development of such giiide- 

 lines wnth respect to views, suppliers, and things of that kind, private 

 ownership of marine mammals, et cetera. 



Is the bill now drawm, in your judgment, in such a way that the 

 Scientific Advisory Committee would be able to establish criteria or 

 guidelines which, after the development, thev would have a binding 

 effect? 



Dr. NoKRis. Yes. 



Mr. Lennon. Now, I am not going to pursue the others, but if you 

 do have specific suggestions reflated to legislation on any of the five 

 specific comments I would like for you to furnish them to the counsel. 



Let us turn to your hopeful thinking about the establishment of the 

 Department of Natural Resources in a reorganization plan that was 

 proposed by the executive branch of the Government, but I under- 

 stand the President, is now receding from at this time. 



That looks to me like it is quite far down the road. What do you 

 gentlemen think ? 



Dr. Ray. I do not know how far down the road it is. I was hoping 

 it was not, but if it is, then we are up against a matter of serious 

 jurisdiction. 



IVIr. Lennon. Well, we always have that problem. 



Dr. Ray. There is one bit of jurisdiction that I have some rather 

 strong and impolite words for, I am afraid, and that is this division 

 between commercial fisheries and fish and wildlife. 



