437 



We just simply hare to increase it to find out what we are doing 

 out there. 



Mr. RoTT^rrREE. Do you feel this new cooperative research program 

 which the tmia industry and the National ^larine Fisheries Service 

 recently announced will serve to meet the objections you have raised 

 about access to ships for conduct Log research through commercial 

 fishing operations? 



Dr. Rat. Perhaps through that one industry, if this becomes a via- 

 ble cooperation. Xo. this will not serve the total need. 



Dr. XoRRis. It will not even come close to it. because we are dealing 

 with global programs here in which we need to learn about numbers 

 of animals, say on the equatorial current system, or the California 

 current system, or the Gulf of Alaska, or the Bering Sea. 



None of these are really going to be touched by the National Marine 

 Fisheries Service program on the tuna problem. 



^Ir. RouxTREE. Do you not feel that a partial or a total moratorium 

 on a limited time basis might be imposed within the discretionary 

 authority of either the Interior or NOAA would be one fairly effec- 

 tive game management tool which could be utilized ? 



Dr. Rat. It camiot be effective. We have moratoriums right now at 

 the present moment, and we have had them. 



Mr. RorxTREE. Do you think a moratorium for a number of species 

 for a specified nimiber of years would be wise I 



Mr. ScHE^^LL. Currently there are various moratoriums on a par- 

 ticular species, but not always for a definite term. 



Mr. RorxTREE. Could you supply that data then for the record ? 



Mr. SciiE\-rLL. Well, several whales that are off the catch list now, 

 the gray whale, the bowhead. the white whale, the blue whale, the 

 hiunpback whale. Those are protected all over the world now in any 

 waters, am I right in this, except for the native bowhead ? 



I am not saying that this is utterly enforceable, and as Dr. Ray men- 

 tions, there have been some so-called pirate whalers who do not belong 

 to any of the countries. 



Mr. Potter. Can I pursue this for a mmute ? 



It seems to me what Dr. Ray was saying a little earlier is that there 

 are other species of animals that are also subject to moratoria or pro- 

 tection under various conventions. You do not have to present this 

 information to us right now. but we would like to have it. 



Dr. Rat. We need to list it species by species. I think. 



In some cases, this will require looking into some of the laws of 

 various nations of which I am not cognizant. 



Mr. Potter. Let us restrict it to areas where U.S. nationals are 

 inhibited in the taking of these species. 



Dr. Rat. We mention in our testimony that we significantly left 

 off the list the small Cetacea. and a question was asked of Dr. Norris 

 about oceaneria displays, and I sympathize with what he said- 



I think guidelines and permit arrangements will solve many of the 

 problems that we face with relation to capture of porpoises. 



I can only reflect that it appears in contradistinction to our philoso- 

 phies that we are not allowed to keep a pet robin. Nobody is. but any- 

 body can keep a pet porpoise. 



I do not see the logic. I think we have to really bear down on captive 

 animals. And the porpoises are pretty well left off any restrictions 



