39 



Mr. Lewis. I mean, I don't know of anybody that is going to give 

 you money without asking for it to be returned. I mean, who 



thinks 



Mr. Miller. The government 



Mr. Lewis. No, they get a return. They get $7 billion out of 



Mr. Miller. Not 



The Chairman. The gentleman's time has run out. 



Mr. Miller. That is not sound economics. 



The Chairman. I am not going to discuss that economics right 

 now, because that has been argued over and over and over. 



Mr. Lewis. That is the basis of 



Mr. Miller. It's not that I'm going to demand you raise 



The Chairman. The public's own demand with all due respect is 

 to extend the contract so in fact the city can survive. And the com- 

 pany, very frankly, with their stockholders chose to pick up and 

 walk away now, they could do so. I have said this time and time 

 again, but what we are trying to do is figure a way out where we 

 can extend the contract. 



Mr. Miller. With all due respect, that is what the owner of the 

 Cleveland Browns said. 



The Chairman. Well 



Mr. Miller. What I am saying is so then I want to know if this 

 is so vital to the city of Ketchikan, they get $25 million from the 

 Federal Government, the first thing they do is hire a consultant. 

 Why don't they come to Louisiana Pacific and say is there some- 

 thing we can do in terms of community development, in terms of 

 economic development, to help you? 



Mr. Lewis. The contract 



Mr. Miller. If they give you Federal money they'll have no op- 

 tions. 



The Chairman. I am going to tell you one thing right off the bat. 

 I don't care what they did with that money. I was never excited 

 about that. I mean, that's welfare money. That is not work money. 

 Everybody tells us we are going to start new businesses; we're 

 going to go out and diversify the economy. And I keep saying where 

 are you going to diversify? Unless there's timber there is no diver- 

 sification. I don't care what they say. Unless you let us mine and 

 they are not going to let us mine it. There is no other economic 

 base in those communities. It does not exist today. You talk about 

 fishing. Fishing cannot expand; it's exactly stable. That is State 

 law and Federal law. You can't expand in any other arena. They 

 talk about tourism. Right now tried it in Ketchikan we have seven 

 boats and there during the summertime you can hardly walk the 

 streets. You can't expand that. You have got a point here, but 

 somewhere along the line we have to recognize that timber plays 

 a vital role and we have to figure — if we can extend this contract, 

 keep that town viable, that is what we are trying to do. 



Aiid by the way, all due respect, you are a lawyer. You would 

 never come to me and expect me to lend you money. I know you 

 would never do that, but lend me money without some guarantee 

 you are able to pay me back. You can't do it. You can't ask — the 

 city of Ketchikan would do it in a second if 



Mr. Miller. Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, I don't want to 

 lend you the forest unless I know it is absolutely necessary. And 



