47 



Mr. ESTEY. I cannot speak in specifics on that, but generally no, 

 the environmental restrictions and conditions they need to meet 

 are not as stringent as in the U.S. 



The Chairman. I see David shaking his head. Is that correct? 



Mr. ROETS. That is correct. They are about 15 years behind us 

 on environmental issues. 



The Chairman. So what we are saying in reality, because we 

 have become more dependent, is we can pollute the rest of the 

 world. 



Mr. RoETS. That is correct. 



The Chairman. But we can't improve upon our own, because my 

 understanding is the mill is looking to put in over $200 million to 

 upgrade the mill to make it viable. And $200 million at, let us say 

 ten percent interest, that is a large interest payment. And yet 

 we're backing this industry — for the oil industry, everybody sup- 

 ports the oil industry, too, you know. They want to send it overseas 

 where we have to be dependent upon it and they can pollute every- 

 thing out there before we can have the requirements here. But we 

 know what will happen, just — maybe tell them we do things about 

 that. 



David, how many plants do you serve? 



Mr. ROETS. We serve about 365 mills. 



The Chairman. Where are they mostly? 



Mr. RoETS. Most of them are in the Southeast. 



The Chairman. Southeast. 



Mr. RoETS. The majority of the mills, probably 70 percent, are 

 in the Southeast part of the United States. There is probably — the 

 remaining portion, basically, is on the West Coast, along the West 

 Coast, and then the remaining mill in Alaska. 



The Chairman. One thing I just think I should ask you, both of 

 you men. When I go into Arkansas and Georgia and Alabama, why 

 do I smell that mill 24 miles away but Ketchikan I can't smell it 

 down the street? 



Mr. RoETS. Because they haven't made all the environmental 

 changes yet that Ketchikan has made. Ketchikan is a very environ- 

 mentally aware mill. They strive very hard to keep a clean environ- 

 ment and not be emitting everything that some of the other mills 

 typically emit. I mean, most of these mills are meeting the stand- 

 ards that are set forth for their State. 



The Chairman. For their State. 



Mr. ROETS. For their State. State of limitations 



The Chairman. And our mill is meeting the standards of the 

 State and the Federal Government, is that correct? 



Mr. ROETS. That is correct, sir. 



The Chairman. And that means really this mill up here — to 

 judge this mill compared to any other mill, like I have heard testi- 

 mony about the mills in Canada, are much better. How would you 

 rate the Ketchikan mill? 



Mr. RoETS. I would say the Ketchikan mill is far more advanced 

 environmentally than the mills in Canada. The regulations in Can- 

 ada are not as stringent as the regulations in the United States. 



The Chairman. What would — Scott, you are a lender now? 



Mr. ESTEY. I am not a lender, actually. We consult. 



The Chairman. I am putting the lender's hat on your head. 



