48 



Mr. ESTEY. All right. 



The Chairman. It makes you feel good and now you are lending 

 man too, but is there any way at all for — you heard Mr. Miller talk 

 about the city being involved, the State being involved, is there any 

 way as an investor you would invest without an extension of con- 

 tract? 



Mr. ESTEY. I guess no. To me the security of that resource is val- 

 uable to the long-term viability of the mill, and therefore the ability 

 to pay back loans. 



The Chairman. If you were advising the State permanent fund, 

 for instance, you wouldn't advise to take that any of that money. 

 In fact, there would probably be a lawsuit. I am surprised ADA got 

 away with it. By a stockholder in the State fund, saying this is not 

 a viable option here because there is no collateral. 



Mr. ESTEY. Right, I would advise no, essentially since there is no 

 other source of fiber. 



The Chairman. OK. Anything you want to add? 



Mr. ROETS. No. 



The Chairman. I want to thank both of you for waiting very pa- 

 tiently. I do appreciate it. These things take a long time, but it is 

 very, very valuable. Thank you, David. Thank you, Scott. 



Next we have panel four. Take your seats and I will be back in 

 a minute. We have Robert, Wayne, Gershon, Mary and Brian. Rob- 

 ert, you are up first. 



STATEMENT OF ROBERT LINDEKUGEL, SOUTHEAST ALASKA 

 CONSERVATION COUNCIL, JUNEAU, ALASKA 



Mr. Lindekugel. Thank you. My name is Buck Lindekugel and 

 I am the Conservation Director for the Southeast Alaska Conserva- 

 tion Council. Dave Katz, our Forest Plan Coordinator, is behind me 

 to answer some — help answer some questions. 



I fell in love with Southeast Alaska when I was a commercial 

 fisherman in 1980. I have been a grassroots conservation lawyer 

 working on Tongass issues since 1988. 



SEACC strongly opposes this latest assault on the 1990 Tongass 

 Timber Reform Act. Since the fall of '94, and counting this month's 

 scheduled hearings, the Alaska delegation has held an incredible 

 14 hearings and pushed 11 separate pieces of legislation on the 

 Tongass, all of them aimed at rolling back the Tongass Timber Re- 

 form Act and other conservation laws. 



Chairman Young, your footprints are over the bill to give away 

 the Tongass and begin dismantling our national forest. You also 

 want to hand over 200,000 acres of the Tongass to five new native 

 corporations. 



The Chairman. Robert, I am going to stop you there. Now we are 

 talking about extension of the contract. Let us talk about extension 

 of the contract. This is not about the Landless people or anything 

 else but the extension of the contract. If you don't want to stick to 

 that script, I want to take questions. 



Mr. Lindekugel. Well, sir, you know, I — if I may, sir, I respect- 

 fully disagree. Earlier in your statement you mentioned that 



The Chairman. We never talked about the Landless. 



Mr. Lindekugel. No, you didn't talk about the Lan 



The Chairman. And that's what you 



