52 



servation of Alaska's waters. ACWA works to ensure that activities 

 in Alaska's rivers, lakes, estuaries, and marine waters protect pub- 

 lic health, support the use of the ecosystem for food harvesting, and 

 foster environmental and economic stability. ACWA tracks NPDES 

 permits in Alaska to assure that discharges comply with State, 

 Federal, and legal requirements and works to build alliances with 

 fishing, subsistence, tourism, public health, and native groups 

 across the State. 



Sir, you have my written testimony, and I will provide that for 

 the record. I would like to instead use my time to respond to com- 

 ments that were made by earlier testifiers. 



Mr. Chairman, I am not an attorney and I wouldn't want to at 

 this time 



The Chairman. May I say that is probably the best thing you 

 have got going for you. 



Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. I wouldn't want to testify as to what 

 permit compliance means, but I am looking at the four bankers' 

 boxes here of permits. And we have been told that Ketchikan Pulp 

 Company has always operated in compliance with their permits. I 

 am not sure how that statement can be made. There are many no- 

 tices of violation, fines, consent decrees that they are operating 

 under that in plain language, sir, to a non-attorney would say that 

 they have not indeed operated within their permits. 



The Chairman. Could I ask you a question? 



Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir. 



The Chairman. Within the permits limits or in fact as a change 

 took place, how much was the results of Federal regulations and 

 other stipulations put into place that they were to be in compli- 

 ance? 



Mr. Cohen. Sir, do you mean changes in law after the 



The Chairman. As a result of regulation. 



Mr. Cohen. Well, in the four years that I have been working for 

 ACWA, the water quality standards for the State have in fact, in 

 my estimation, become less tight, not more tight. 



The Chairman. Not State, Federal. 



Mr. Cohen. Well, sir, there have been changes to the Clean 

 Water Act since that permit came into being for the mill. And they 

 are in violation now of Clean Water Act requirements that every- 

 one else in the country is having to follow. 



The Chairman. What type of mill — can I ask you this now? If we 

 did a testimony — have you been around any pulp mills? 



Mr. Cohen. Pardon me? 



The Chairman. Have you been around any pulp mills? 



Mr Cohen. Yes. 



The Chairman. Now if this mill compared to the one in Georgia, 

 of the many that they have, compared to that, do they — is it clean- 

 er or dirtier? 



Mr. Cohen. I couldn't answer that. 



The Chairman. I think we ought to find that out. Go ahead. 



Mr. Cohen. To directly 



The Chairman. Go on with your testimony now, because you are 

 supposed to be on open time. Go ahead. 



Mr. Cohen. OK. To directly address some of those comments 

 made earlier, sir, with respect to Superfund, it is true that KPC 



