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possible that Hedstrom would not be good law after the Supreme 

 Court. But even if Hedstrom still is good law, there are several sig- 

 nificant distinctions between the TTRA and the Hedstrom case that 

 make Hedstrom inapplicable, we believe. 



And that would concern first — in Hedstrom it involved creation 

 of the boundary waters canoe area, and it was a wilderness act, 

 general, didn't specifically cite any of the contracts. In contrast, 

 TTRA singled out the APC and KPC contracts and were the basic — 

 those contracts were the basic motivation for the TTRA, and di- 

 rected — the legislation was directed at those contracts. 



And under Winstar, the sovereign acts defense wouldn't be appli- 

 cable. 



Mr. Crapo. Are you familiar with the CRS report on which the 

 analysis of the House report that I referred to earlier was made? 



Mr. HORNGREN. Yes. 



Mr. Crapo. And how would the Courts holding in Winstar affect 

 the CRS report's analysis? 



Mr. HoRNGREN. I think it invalidates it. And I think it does that 

 because particularly the CRS assumption was based in part on the 

 Hedstrom case. And the underlying assumption was just an act 

 that had a public and general purpose could — you know, the gov- 

 ernment could invoke the sovereign acts doctrine and avoid con- 

 tract liability. But the Winstar case changes that and says the act 

 will not be public and general if it has a substantial effect on the 

 contracts. And that is the case with TTRA. 



Mr. Crapo. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if I could ask just one 

 more quick question of Mr. Leonard. 



The Chairman. You have got all the time you want. 



Mr. Crapo. Thank you. Mr. Leonard, I am just curious. I come 

 from Idaho and I know how long it takes to grow a tree to harvest- 

 able size in Idaho. How long does it take to grow a tree to a har- 

 vestable size in the Tongass area, if you know, and I am talking 

 about on a sustainable yield basis where the cut levels will not ex- 

 ceed the ability of the forest to continue to grow and be managed 

 properly. 



Mr. Leonard. We have historically used rotation ages in Alaska, 

 which is the time it takes to grow a marketable tree, in the neigh- 

 borhood of 80 to 100 years. 



Mr. Crapo. Thank you. 



Mr. Leonard. But those are large trees. 



Mr. Crapo. Thank you very much. 



The Chairman. Thank you. I thank the gentleman. I appreciate 

 it. I know you may have another appointment, but don't leave until 

 you have to because you'll just get a phone call. I see Mr. LaHood 

 is trying to go; on behalf of the committee we deeply appreciate it. 

 I may ask you to take the chair a little while, if you don't mind. 



Mr. LaHood. I would be honored to do whatever you guys want. 



The Chairman. All right, thank you. Mr. Leonard, going to the 

 specifics of the bill, and that is what I want to say, can you give 

 me some of your recommendations. I know you said you had some 

 and they were sure orally but also give them to me in writing. 



Mr. Leonard. I will be pleased to do that, Mr. Chairman. Let me 

 just go down some of the sections. Section 2(a)(1) is a definition, 

 and it applies the scribner log rule to utility log. The scribner log 



